Sunday, 28 October 2012

The Voice Speaks - Blood Angels 1850. Return of the Mech

Howdie peoples.  Its been a slow week hobby wise, i'm not getting much gaming in at the momement what with trying to finish building an empire army, running round after the pregnant one and painting my wolfs. So the internet has been my only real source of hobby love (i am not loving the commissions...its not fun when its a job :/)

Anyway, I was reading this:

He makes some very good points about mech in 6th ed.

I read it and I am of the thinking that yes, hes correct. Mech msu may not be as GOOD as it was, but its by far from BAD. Hull points as a concept has really just brought all styles of army in to roughly the same ball park competitively wise (apart from maybe flyer spam but I digress). So yes - your seeing more infantry based army's, no - mech isn't the no brainier it used to be and yes I think it can still work. And I think Blood Angels can do it (I love my Bangles and I've been itching to get back to them somehow)


  • A lot of people are assuming that they will only be playing a handful of vehicles now, so their anti tank will not be as prevalent in their lists as before. Allowing you to swamp the big threats with your msu giving you a easier time as the game progresses.
  • Shaken and stuns do not happen as much now, and when they do you can still snap fire. Damage output from your mech actualygets BETTER than in 5th
  • Assaults squads give you cheap as chips razorbacks. Allowing yet more mech
  • Fast vehicles are still very useful gun boats. Combat is death to mech now, so anything to keep stuff further away is good.
  • You have a hq that can give you a 5+ save to everything in range. No longer is 5+ "not that good" its kinda the norm now, you don't feel robbed of a save as you scoot round the flanks dakkaing everything.
  • They have access to Baals, the hidden heavy support choice.
  • Twin linked weapons on a lot of your vehicles makes flyers not look as smug zipping around, and that snap fire isn't that big a deal when stunned.
  • More infantry = more things to tank shock!!
  • Fast vehicles can get under the "flyer radar" easier. Turn 2 I could be on the enemy's deployment line making it very difficult  for them to start drawing a bead on me.

So how does this all translate in to a list. Well here's my current thinking at 1850:

Libby - Shield (for the save bubble), not sure on the second power.

5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with twin linked assault cannons
5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with twin linked assault cannons
5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with twin linked assault cannons
5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with twin linked assault cannons
5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with twin linked assault cannons
5 assault marines, plasma gun in razorback with heavy flamer

Baal, assault cannon, heavy bolters
Baal, assault cannon, heavy bolters

Predator, autocannon, heavy bolters
Predator, autocannon, heavy bolters

Bastion - Quad Gun

Basic premise?

Assault cannon and dakka stuff. The flazorback gets in the way for cover saves maybe or hangs about for those problem units in cover. The squad from inside mans the bastion. 5 razor units run round with shield on them shooting stuff lots. If I need to I debunk and let rip plasma too.

The av 13 chassis pour massed firepower in to any an all infantry with the vindicator trundling around putting the fear of god into anything with a good save or more than one wound.

Simples huh?

I need to play this just to see if it can compete. Though I'm still thinking of what to use as the second power. In the old days it would have been lance. But I'm really tempted with fear of the darkness or shackle soul - for those pinch moments when you really need stuff not to be running on to objectives (or run away). Fear is stronger, but I worry ill be too tempted to use it and get out of the tanks when really my warlord should stay in. Shackle soul would be for turn 5,6,7 last gasps and so wont put me in dangerous positions due to over eagerness. (in case your wondering - shackle soul is 12 inch range and unit needs to pass a ld test to move, then one to run, then one to charge)

I don't think any of the main rule books power trees benefit this list. So I'm sticking with the codex powers. Though id be interested if people had any thoughts on that.

So comments? I'm kinda liking it :)



  1. Fear I think would be a sound second power.. I like Shackle and I totes dig your reason for the thought, but I think if you are going to have something.. it may as well work! Just show some self restraint!

    RE Bastion! WTF? Why not just an Aegis? Save a few points for Melta Bombs on all your sergeants? This at least provides you with some way of dealing with heavy armour..

    You remember in one of your last few points you were talking about the meta moving in circles.. this list with medium strength Dakka will bring back a land raider!

    The same comments re armour and people reacting to getting more shots in vs anti infantry will result in more heavy armour and some kind of mech come back.. I'd be interested in seeing how this does..

    I do think a Priest would be useful (bastion) and that perhaps a Scout unit may be useful for the Aegis? Just a thought. The Priest mainly due to your low body count... Cause all those guns that target infantry will shred yours..

    Baals are good. I am a fan, but in 5th it was without sponsons, now I guess they are useful and add more firepower.

    I would be tempted to mix up the TLAC for a couple of las/plas, but I totally get the theme.

    On the Vindicator.. I'd be more tempted by 2 than just 1..tbh, I'd run 3.. but they are incapable of targeting fliers so maybe not such as good shout a the minute.

    I would say that with such a strength/plethora of Cron Fliers the Haywire Crypteks that are SOOOO common they will strip the shit out of your heavy armour, as long as you are more than 6" on the board, they'll get you. But hey ho..

    I think it can deal with a lot of armies that are out there right now, I do think speed is an advantage, but I think that it has serious limitations...but nothing in the game can handle everything perfectly..

    Nice to see them back on boards..

  2. Well it was the bastion that got the nod for a few reasons:

    Its more av to spread the incoming fire power thinner

    I think aegis's suit gun lines more than mobile mech , i dont want bodies behind a wall - i want them behind walls of steel!!! :P

    The quad gun, while part of the bastion, cannot be destroyed separately. So your anti flyer stuff gun is not t7 with 2 wounds...its the gun on an immobile landraider. Much tougher. If you want that gun dead you have to shoot the av14 tower. Shots that are not going in to my other mech.

    I see your point about the crypeks with haywire, but at the end of the day they have to get out to do it within 12 inches. So they should then get shot up by survivors, taking out some of their scoring. Necron builds (as much as me and you think they should do) dont always have them though :P

    Also- yea the las/plas turrents was a tempter - at the end of the day the points are a straight swap so i can play about with it.

    Im not saying this is the next big thing. But i do like it. I like curve ball ideas and dont like following the trend so its appealing. Plus its bangles - ive been looking for a way of getting them going again after my doa went doa :( - they are my fave loyalist chapter.

  3. Nice list. Will take some people by surprise. I would consider taking three Baal Preds with either flame cannon/HB or TL Assault Cannon/Hvy Flmer.

    That outflank makes it great for nabbing all the exposed infantry that hits the table now.

    Then run 2 Vindi's.


  4. Not sure on the gun on the bastion not being able to be destroyed. The bastion and aegis defence wall can purchase a "Gun Emplacement with...", so what counters the line under Gun Emplacement (p105) that says "The gun emplacement can be shot at and attacked in close combat...and has the following profile:". Page 97 shows us that Quad guns and Icarus lascannons are emplaced weapons, but nothing stops a Gun Emplacement from being shot at as per p105.

    Regarding the main trust of the article I think it's spot on, and certain armies such as blood angels will still be able to play mech well. I think guard mech with infantry support will also do well.

    I second Venerable Brother's advice to have a few las/plas razorbacks as they can move 12" and fire both weapons.

    Only weakness I can easily see would probably be av14, however how many av14 we'll see in competitive lists when some armies DE/Eldar/Necrons etc. can destroy them so easily is doubtful, outside IG which can bubblewrap leman russ' with cheap infantry with a nearby veteran squad nearby for triple plasma retaliation.


  5. Here's a slightly modifyed list - some has mentioned that screamers and wraiths will still be able to catch up and ruin my day. so:

    Libby - shield, fear, axe

    5 ass, plasma - Assaultback
    5 ass, plasma - Assaultback
    5 ass, plasma - Assaultback
    5 ass, plasma - Assaultback
    5 ass, plasma - Assaultback

    Aegis line, lascannon

    Pred, autcannon, heavy bolters
    Pred, autcannon, heavy bolters

    Libby - Null zone, avenger, axe
    5 Scout, sniper, telion
    Storm talon, assault cannon and missiles (though this can easily get swapped for a baal still)
    Pred, autocannon, heavy bolters

    You lose a vehicle but give a headache to deamons and wraiths and hq's in general. As well as getting some more anti flyer and a sniping lascannon to pop at those problem models.

  6. Hey Voice,

    Your last list posted looks the most solid. A friend of mine (someone who I would rank as a pretty good player, usually!) took a mech BA army to the last ToS event. Yes, it isn't that competitive, but he won't be taking it to the upcoming GT heat as it simply died far too easily. Top-table is Necrons and Daemons these days, it seems, and unfortunately, your first 1850 list hasn't got the durability to take on one of those lists at that many points.

    I think your last list is a big improvement - you're right, the Librarian with NZ is worth his weight in gold - would definitely be edgeing towards that.

  7. I've recently started playing assualt cannon razor squads as well. But, I only run four with just a melta gun in each squad, a librarian with shield and fear, drop pod death company with 10 bolters and hammer, predators with lascannon sponsons( 2 preds), two baal preds( with bolters) and two furioso's with any loadout with drop pods. So far its kicked ass and no one is prepared for all that armor. All the dark eldar/eldar combos that have been tormenting me before I ran this list are utterly laughable.