As pointed out in this comments thread here by Alex (Killswitch) I ballsed up my IG list.
I forgot that I had to pay points for Chimera’s.
The fucking cheek.
I don’t have to pay for anything I don’t want to.
Wait, what? I do. Arse.
That’ll teach me…something.
So with the realisation that my 2 Vets squads were costing me an extra 110 points, I needed a redesign.
Now, I have been toying with certain ideas anyway over the past few days and am eagerly anticipating getting the boys into action tomorrow at my local GW… their virgin battle (so don’t worry, I’ve not been cheating!! Playtesting vs myself doesn’t count!)
So here is what I have now….a few tweaks here and there, but overall I am very pleased with it.
It is not too brutal either. It may not be perfect, but it has a lot of tools in the army and that’s what I like…people mock my Wolves as being too bitty….but with practice….
CCS – Melta’s x3, Chimera (HHF)
PCS – Flamers x 4, Chimera (HHF)
Inf Squad – Autocannon
Inf Squad – Autocannon
Heavy Weapons Team (Yes you fuckers, it IS still in here!) 3x Autocannon
Vets – Demolitions, 3xMelta, Chimera (HHF)
Vendetta
Vendetta
Hellhound, Multimelta(Burn fucker, burn, Hellhound Inferno…)
Leman Russ Demolisher
Manticore
2 x Hydra Flak Tanks
Bang on 1500. And I’m paying for everythin’!
Hellhound is a new threat, but provides a very versatile and solid midfield packed with Leman Russ and Chimeras, plus this speedy bitch to get wherever I need it to be and most importantly almost impossible to ignore due to its speed and multifunctional role.
I can’t wait to get stuck into this tomorrow and will let y’all know…..meanwhile, back to the DE codex for funsies…
Hmmmm not too sure about this list. You've got a lot of autocannons which is good for Guard, but that's about it.
ReplyDeleteThe CCS I find personal better with plasma, this is because they can put out a hellvua lot of fire power. With meltas you have two units grinding forward, stop those tanks and those short ranged guns won't get into range. What you could do with the CCS is throw them into a Vendetta, turbo boost forward and then bail out issue orders to themselves and blow something up - they act as a suicide unit, it works, and with mech armies orders aren't used that much. Plus it's not a troop choice and is getting into range much earlier, and taking advantage of the orders.
You'll find the Veterans along with the CCS won't last long once in range or target priority which leaves you with thin infantry and troop numbers. I would bulk up on your troops and cut some of the other stuff.
Vendettas are cool with lascannons, but they don't get cover and can only move 6" and fire all three. Personaly I prefer a Valkyrie with multiple missile pods maybe heavy bolters too, move it forward bail out the Veterans, melta something and then unleash salvos as the pods are defensive weapons ;)
Hellhounds are cool but it should be blasting infantry, the multi melta takes away it's infantry blasting role and any infantry in cover will just get a cover save - you put the multi melta on a Bane Wolf for wound allocation shenigans ;)
Tanks come in pairs, so two Demolishers.
I wouldn't take the Hydras, just get another heavy weapons team which gives more troops at the same time :)
Hey man,
ReplyDeletethanks for the well thought out points...
With my CCS and Vets, there was a reasoning behind the Vendetta's being empty...the CCS/Vets can choose to stay in their chimera's OR they can mount up in Vend's IF I want to Alpha strike...sometimes there are no viable targets...
And bearing in mind that, as you say, they pretty much die straight away..sometimes its not worth it.
So they can be slow, but they still have the option of getting their melta in position first turn.
I like the idea of a Valk...I'll look into it. Plenty of shots from HB's and RP's so it is definately worth a thought.
You sure about the Hydra's? They are super accurate and have fantastic range. Good positioning makes them a hideous unit vs transports...
If I go back to just HWT's I lose accuracy and shots, unless I buy 2 x 3 Autocannon squads! Alot of Autocannons but, less accurate...
The Hellhound is entirely designed for roasting troops...BUT at the same time, the 10 point MM helps to confuse the target priority for the enemy...It cannot be ignored with a Fast MM on it, meaning less shots elsewhere, or it can USE the MM and actually fry something.
Just an extra tool in a couple of categories..AV12 saturation, AT, AI, target dilution...
What would you put in instead of the Hydra's? 1 x HWT and then 75 extra points for...? Drop Demo on Vets for another 30...
Or would it be cheaper to run 2 suicide HQ's rather than the Vets?
I agree with some of what is said, but here is my 2 cents:
ReplyDeleteVendettas trump Valkyries simply because guard need those lascannons. There arn't too many ways to get some CHEAP long range anti-tank, and vendettas do that great.
Hydras are awsome and if you've spent the time and money on them, may aswell use em.
As for the hellhound, it performs multi-roles, so its down to what your lacking in the army. I like hellhounds with multi-meltas to give them something else to do (like a MM/HF speeder)
As for the tanks come in pairs comment, I have never agreed with this. Armour saturation makes this comment redundant, and tbh, 2 demolishers in 1500pts is stupid and too many pts.
There are enough troops, you just need to be careful, because if those tanks explode, everyone inside tends to die. I wouldnt do the 2 HQ suicides as you really need those troops for objective missions.
Cheers
Alex
I'm saying you don't need Hydras because you have plenty of autocannons at the moment, and tanks definately go in pairs because saturation doesn't matter when you only have one tank which is a threat - kill it and the threat is done, who cares about saturation if you can identify key targets and take out those threats. So taking things matters a lot Killswitch.
ReplyDeleteHellhound hits on a 4+ and multi meltas are 15 points actually ;) Land Speeder is 70 points for dual role has better ballistic skill, that's why you can invest in it. If you're firing that multi melta at transports then you're not firing the flamer at infantry, which it's designed to do. As mentioned, multi melta on Bane Wolves ;)
25 troop models plus the 3 bases is no where near enough troop numbers, at all. How can you even say there's enough Killswitch?
Sorry but how is 5 Autocannons enough? 3 Of which are fairly easy to get rid of. Hydras providing a lot for 150pts and are very easy to put in cover, whilst shoot over the top, which in itself is great.
ReplyDeleteI think your missing the point. You say killing that 1 tank is easy? Its AV 14 which means it can only reliably be killed when up close with melta weapons (or dark lances for eldar). This coupled with armour redundancy makes that one Demolisher fairly survivable. I understand the point of having 2, but not only is that taking 2 of your Heavy supports (which is BIG for IG) but its a lot of points. All he wants is something to perhaps push forward, blow something up and really use it as a psychological factor more than anything.
What do you mean by "actually" I never said how many pts the multi-meltas are. The speeder is multi role and yes its cheap, but its flimsy. What if your playing a mech army. That flamer is going to do fuck all for the first 2 turns, so you may aswell take a MM to give it a purpose, and also threaten your opponent if they come towards your lines. Having a multi-melta on bane wolves gives it one role, anti-tank. What if you face a horde? Its now completly redundant. I think your missing the point of duality and its uses on tournaments.
25 troops? I see 35! 10 vets in the chimera, which can just be put in reserve and hide if you wanted. the Platoon squad can just sit back and just hold the home objective. Hell most of the time it will be ignored, especially if its in cover. You need to kill 5 of the buggers in 1 round to even force a LD check. Platoon command can just hide in a vendetta if need be. Autocannon teams can be thrown behind a building on an objective aswell. To be honest, your not looking at the list as a whole. The list is to slow your opponent down with anti-tank and mop up. If your opponents in your lines, your going to lose anyways. Thats the same for any guard army. To be honest, its more troops than most armies. Hell, Ive won tourneys with my eldar with 6 jetbikes and 5 dire avengers. Troops dont need to be spammed, as long as you know what your doing.
Some realy good points guys, appreciate the sparring! Makes you strongly rethink both sides.
ReplyDeleteThe Hellhound will stay, I've gotten 3 more test games in over past two days and its proved its worth time and again, forcing hard target priority for the opposition. The MM has only been fired once at a chimera, it missed but had no other viable targets and was in position due to speed anyway.
hydra's are too good not to use, for the price they are superb vs anything up to AV12.
My bubblewrap has been superb, although the use of the autocannon in the units has either a) reduced mobility or b)not performed as well as my high expectation.
See Mercers point on having plenty of Autocannons is true, but the Hydras are necessary due to low BS of standard guardsmen.
My units under the spotlight are the Manticore- who unfortunately has only ever produced 2 rockets per turn (once), the rest of the time only producing one. But I know when it does fire three storm eagles vs a mech army or horde in heavy concentration.....
But my thoughts are to replace it with a colossus for engaging encamped enemy units like Long fangs....
Also Vets....do they need Demolitions? Sure the MBs are so cheap, but how many times have I used them?....any thoughts on that?
I think you defo need to play test that Manticore more before you swap it. So far in all my gasmes (not many mind you, about 4-5) its been awsome. Killed a whole 10 man marine squad the other day lol. Rubish armour saves from him but was epic to see.
ReplyDeleteVets I think shouldnt bother unless you give them flamers. Up to you if you really need that demo or those MB's which are rarely used tbh.
Alex
Yeah I'm not looking to get the Manticore out just yet!
ReplyDeleteIt's only had about 7 test games so its not off before its had a fair run of 20 or so games...
I only change one thing every 4-5 games, see how things work out..
Love the potential devastation it can unleash.
In fairness to it, with just one missile in 2 games it killed 2 Defilers in one shot, plus has been a real pain versus other IG armies.
But I'm all about consistency...and I just don't get it with the Manitcore...unless I lower my expectations to knowing that I will always have ONE rocket and any extra are bonuses...
This is the way to look at it I think...
Yep, at least one, but potentially 3. I like to think of averaqges, so 2 rockets a turn is potentially devastating as is. 1 is still good and 3 is amazing. All in all its still a great toy for 160pts :)
ReplyDelete