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| Todays list is not as exciting as this picture... But it's not my fault... Boring European fucktards... |
This is not necessarily a new thing, nor a trend which no one saw coming...especially in this context - the ETC does not allow Forge World and therefore the ability to spam Sabre Defence Platforms means that fliers have a real chance to dominate.
Lets look at the tournaments in the UK - when FW is allowed at a tournament, fliers are not as much of a worry...when there is no FW allowed at an event - fliers abound.
The ETC follows this trend it seems, at Europe and in the States at least.
Germany, USA, Italy, Greece, France.. the list goes on and on...they are all rocking an extreme flier list.
What are the armies?
Really...
You need to ask?
Necrons and Chaos Space Marines.
Night Scythes and Heldrakes. That's pretty much the army list too haha!
This is one post that I am really not all that excited about writing. We all know that if you do not have sufficient anti-air firepower you will find a game infinitely harder if not impossible to win vs massed fliers.
.......................................
So, I pick up writing this post 5 days after I started... granted I had this whole business of turning 30, promotion interviews to deal with and moving house to deal with - so I'm going to give myself a pass on the delay in posting.
It's not like I have 6 other authors right ?????? Lazy bitches... ;)
You can see it is not easy for me to sit and write this article, right?
It's boring.. Typical list comes from Italy:
Khorne Rapist Lord
2 x 10 Cultists
20 Cultists
3 Heldrakes
Aegis - Comms Relay
Necron Overlord - CCB, Scythe, 2+ save, Mindshackles
5 Deathmarks - Night Scythe
5 Warriors - Night Scythe
5 Warriors - Night Scythe
Doom Scythe - Death Ray
7 Fliers; 4 which are really quite expensive and 3 cheap.
Khorne Lord with Axe, Jugger etc is pretty decent - I would suggest he can use the 20 man Cultist 'blob' (it's not a blob) to deliver him, or he can just hide out of sight and be used as a coutner assault element. Between him and the Necron Overlord you have 2 quite fast, quite dangerous (to different targets in the game) assault elements.
But for me, it is just so very boring.
Too many units off the table - yeah, yeah I know that they are VERY likely to come in on turn 2, but if this list is going second.... well, a hell of a lot can happen in 2 turns with minimum 1000 points off the board.. that's not even assuming he puts any units aboard the 3 fliers that can carry units.
Regarding transports - I think it is a very safe bet that the 2 Warrior units will be on board the Scythes in order to late game contest - a strong bet to suggest as well that in a lot of cases, the Comms Relay might be used to keep them off the table so they are not exposed to fire too early. The Deathmarks I am unsure about, they may very well be used to react to others with Hunters from Hyperspace or they may simply Deep Strike.. they may ride their plane.. or walk on.. they may even start on the table.. each option really dependent on the opposing player and his army. In reality, they are purchased because they unlock another Night Scythe to push the concept in this army list more than anything and because, actually, they are not that bad at what they do.
For some armies, this concept really does push the Interceptor/Skyfire, Volume of fire, TL'ed fire that you have available to the max and will overwhelm once it is on the board. A reasonable amount of anti infantry from the heldrakes and Night Scythes and a decent unit in the
In a situation like the ETC there was no doubt that this list (or the ones very similar to it across many, many other nations) would crop up. Afterall, the ETC is all about match ups and management of team resources. This list has some very good mathc ups and if the teams manage it right, they can pull off some strong wins. Or at the very least, keep planes in the air and drop troops off late game to draw/deny/contest.
But, by God, it's dull.
I'd like to play it in the ETC... but many wouldn't and that's the point. It has good options.
Fuck it.
I'm lying...
I'd rather engage in Naked Hatchet Ice Fishing than have to play against this boring bollocks.
I can't say anymore about it.
There is lots of it at the ETC.
People think this is a good army.
It is.
It can kill stuff and claim objectives and stuff. But dear god...WHY?!?!?
No offence intended but is it really any more boring than a normal necron air list? Wraiths are hardly exciting and annihilation barges are certainly not.
ReplyDeleteAt any competitive event there are streamlined competitive lists, most of which are dull. People claim 6th is all about shooting and you know what, shooting is pretty dull.
Can you honestly say you found your Necrons all that exciting to use? That's not why you use them.
Frankly though, this list isn't even all that special. We played a similar list at a recent doubles and won. As you say with so much off the table there's potential for a tabling.
I think the pure cron air gives power armour a chance.
DeleteHelldrakes don't and fuck over so many cool and interesting builds.
The INSULT! How DARE you Alex!?!? ;)
DeleteFor most of that year I ran dual-Veil Immortals over Wraiths and even ran Scarabs (til that pissing Heldrake got spammed then both units got more or less retired) so it was a bit different - I preferred their firepower over anything else.
But yeah, as you say - it wasn't the most interesting list, or at least the UK tournament especiale wasn't; 17 wraiths, 2 Dlords, 3 barges, troops and planes...
My issue with this list is its overall lack of balance (but as I said, its predicated on the nature of the ETC)
How is shooting dull? It's a futuristic warfare game! What did you think the focus should be on? I love shooting the shit out of stuff!
I'm not overly defensive though.. what you say is right... But soon as I've not used Necrons at an event (or at all) since January I feel pretty good about calling this shit boring.
Regarding the 'special' nature (or not) of this list, again it is not about it's ability to perform at a REGULAR tournament - but about the ability to prey on armies selectively that cannot deal with it or to be put forward late after Tau, IG (allied or otherwise), Crons etc have already been matched and earn points as other armies cannot kill the volume of fliers it has.
Anyway....it's all about swarming the board so that the fliers can't come on!
Don't get me wrong, I know you didn't run the pure version of the list. However, whenever I've played against some version of the necron air list I find it dull. I don't, however, think it gives power armour all that much of a chance. You still have to make a lot more saves. It wouldn't be a strong list if it was worried by power armour!
DeleteUltimately, the issue is that damned heldrake. It's a ridiculous unit, especially for the cost. The combination of AV12, 5+ invulnerable, It Will Not Die, Vector Strike and a 360deg baleflamer is obscene for 170pts. If it were AV11 I might think it reasonable I suppose. Makes me laugh to think of all the people who slated it when the book first came out.
There will always be dull tournament lists because it's a different style of 40K. I can't say I fully understand the ETC system (haven't looked to be honest) but as you say, you have a lot more control over what army you face by the sound of it.
Flyers have created huge division in the community in a Marmite kind of style. Personally I'm not a huge fan of them but they're part of the game regardless of my opinion so I guess I'll just be content my Tau army is more than happy to deal with them!
I published an article bemoaning allies ... this is exactly why. When you've got complete freedom, you get the most boring builds as there's no 'necessity' to trigger invention's mother. When we're talking about 4-6 optimum builds across the whole context. Its a sad reflection on the game. I suppose it was a cheap way to overcome the 'weak codex' argument, by giving nearly everyone (sorry Nids, not your turn again) access to the HEROBOMB and autowin options. It means that the tournaments WON'T be dominated by certain codici. But conversely, certain combo's are now the done thing, and there are fewer - not more. This gives even less opportunity for a player such as yourself to manage epic wins with a sub-par army list. Skill is again demerited in the face of pokemon play-style. Which is sad.
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong Suneokun - I love Allies and I have no issue with them whatsoever. I personally believe that a lot of what you say is true - typically you can build an army to counter 5/6 list arcetypes and do OK with it, but I don't think that that was any different in 5th ed either without allies.
DeleteI think now, you need to be aware of certain combinations and armies, as before, but there are still opportunities to be creative - more so in some cases because you have to look further than just what you are given in your books; you have to think about how certain units from other books might interact with you and the rules.
It's my opinion that you are more able than ever to bring a 'left-field' army to a tournament and still do well..BUT you must consider the meta, I didn't think this was ever NOT the case?
Just thoughts...
This is competitive gaming for you.
DeleteEnd of the day if you are a competitive gamer the metagame will become somewhat "stagnant" unless new variables are released into the game. Competitive players will find the best builds they can (I refrain from the word optimal, as with no real cash events, no full time or pro teams in 40K, you wont get it, other teams/games do get near optimal for certain periods of time).
There are many aspects to gaming.
You may be the best player in the world at league of legends, in which of course you will play the best option, even if its boring, because not doing so could cost you $1,000,000 (yes you read that correctly, the highest prize pay out is 1 million to the world finals winners).
You may however be a player that finds it fun to just troll around on summoners rift ignoring roles and never play a ranked game in your life.
Venerable is in the game of winning tournaments, ergo, he needs to find, nay, EXPLOIT, the best possible options available to him.
Whats worse is he is on the ETC team. Imagine if he turned up to the event, lost all 3 games, and the team turn around to him and ask why he played that list, his response "well allies are boring, I wanted to have fun ... oh sorry did we lose?".
End of the day playing games is a deeply personal thing. Even when I play casually I play with a competitive mind set, thats how I get my fun (I dont enjoy crushing people, I will try my hardest to find opponents better than me, which is why I my favorite games have been versus Atreides and Venerable, both better players than me). However, Joe Smith of the local store loves using his themed orc army that uses nothing but grechin ... furthest from competitive you can get (does that unit even exist anymore?) but he adores it. More power to him.
Sorry for the rant, and its not an attack by any means. 40K tournaments have some what of a blurred line syndrome. The community is so small the weak and strong, casual and competitive all have to play in the same events. For example, if you went to a LOL tournament, chances are if you just "signed up and played" it won't be that high level (it will have good players), you will not however be facing Cloud 9, Alternate or CJ Entus any time soon. Even the tournaments which see the amateur and pro teams compete in the same event have multiple stages of qualifaction.
In reality/ideal world the likes of Venerable should be kept away from Joe Smith with his Gretchin army, they shouldn't be in the same event. This is why the likes of masters and etc are around, they are the 40K equivilent of "pro tournaments" cept instead of winning money, it costs the players money.
/fin :D
lost me at the picture
ReplyDelete