Wednesday 12 September 2012

Killswitch: Thoughts On 6th + Lists!

Interesting to say the least. I really don’t know where to start! There seems to be a lot to take in, and I hope that the game will bring what everyone wanted. Something fresh, new and balanced. They got the first two designs right, balanced however, far from it as of yet.

So after some playtests, I have found that Troops as per usual is a must have, and in large quantities. Large volume of firepower and hard to kill flyers will be storming the tables which means Troops are more important than anything. Playing the mission over keeping your army alive is a must. There are no VP’s for units (except the KP mission) now, just objective VP’s which are vital to winning. Army’s which can take first blood easier than not, along with a chance to take Line Breaker and Warlord slayer thing is something which comes from an army lists design stage. No longer can you simply write out a stand back and shoot list and expect to achieve the secondary objectives.

Personally, most of the primary missions, bar Relic, are fairly straight forward, and to be honest, fairly easy to draw. To this end, secondary objectives have tended to swing games over to a win. I have also found that although shooting and over watch denies combat armies complete reign; through the new psychic powers, USR’s and the way combat works, I think combat is fairly useful.

To this end I have thrown together 2 lists which I have made through some playtesting and found them both fairly flexible. Lets see what you all think, and no you can’t have them!

Wolves + IG:

Njal: 245pts

Rune Priest: 100pts
Power Axe, Jaws & Storm Caller.

Lone Wolf: 85pts Storm Shield, Terminator Armour & Chain Fist.
Lone Wolf: 85pts Storm Shield, Terminator Armour & Chain Fist.
Lone Wolf: 85pts Storm Shield, Terminator Armour & Chain Fist.

10 Grey Hunters: 220pts
2 Plasma Guns, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod & Banner.
10 Grey Hunters: 220pts
2 Plasma Guns, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod & Banner.
10 Grey Hunters: 215pts
2 Meltaguns, Mark of the Wulfen, Drop Pod & Banner.

5 Grey Hunters: 75pts
Flamer.

Aegis Defence Line: 50pts

Primaris Psyker: 70pts

Command Platoon: 30pts

Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-bomb.
Platoon Squad: 65pts
Power Axe & Melta-bomb.
Platoon Squad: 65pts
Power Axe & Melta-bomb.

And now here is other way around:

IG + Wolves

Primaris Psyker: 70pts

Platoon Command: 30pts

Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 65pts
Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 110pts
Power Axe, Melta-Bomb & Commissar with Power Axe.

Platoon Command: 30pts

Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 80pts
Autocannon, Flamer, Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 65pts
Power Axe & Melta-Bomb.
Platoon Squad: 110pts
Power Axe, Melta-Bomb & Commissar with Power Axe.

3 Hydra Platforms: 150pts
3 Hydra Platforms: 150pts
Manticore: 160pts
Aegis Defence Line: 50pts
Rune Priest: 100pts
Rune Priest: 110pts
Chooser.

10 Grey Hunters: 170pts
2 Plasma Guns & Banner.

As you can see, plenty of scoring bodies, lots of capability in ranged, attack and defense, and fairly durable without any easy targets.

Time to get some tournaments under my belt as practise :D

Killswitch

25 comments:

  1. Guard seem to have quickly become the ideal ally for Wolves.

    Are you merging all those IG squads into one enormous blob or keeping them seperate?

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    1. Both lists have merged blob/s. The first list has 6 Troops, whilst the second has only 5, but both still retain strong midfield pressence.

      Yes they are, just a matter of preferance for me as they are the two armies I actually have :D

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    2. Out of your 2 lists, I'd go with WOlves as the core force, just for the Lone Wolves.

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  2. Hi my name is Killswitch and here is Tony Kopach's list that I have yoink'd from the Internetz for Lolz.

    I love Tony

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    Replies
    1. You mean "Hi I am Killswitch and I can create lists which are soo much better than all those internet trolls can make"

      Don't be hatin' the playa', hate the game ;)

      Delete
    2. Joking aside, are you sure those Platforms get Interceptor? I coulda sworn they were just platform based Hydra's like in the codex.

      The new Guard Blob hotness is indeed a scary prospect to face, better load up on those flamers boys because I reckon this shit's gonna be a common site. What am I on about, it is already common when you look at the GT Heat 1 pic's nearly every table had a mass of Guard dudesmen splattered everywhere.

      Hmmm Bloodclaw bomb, 15 Bloodclaws 2 flamers in Crusader. Nah Claws still shit.

      Whirlwinds? Or how about a good ol fashion Wolf Guard Pod full of Combi Flamers.

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    3. It's why I was tempted with the Manticore.

      Yes, go read the new FW flyer book, they are dirty for their cost :D

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  3. I don't think that having loads of troops is as important as everyone is making out. I only took 3 troop units to the first GT heat (3x wracks, 20x Hellions and 5x Pathfinders) and found they were plenty.

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  4. The trouble with this build, and what is getting my panties in a knot, is this:

    The blob is meant to move into mid and tank all the incoming damage and attention while your grey hunter squads move on the periphery to control objectives. If you pod in all of your grey hunters aggressively, they can get mauled pretty badly, leaving 1 blob unit midfield to worry about scoring more than anything else. Blob should always be pushing up front.

    Granted, the lists immobility does require SOMETHING like outflank or deep strike, i just haven't figured out the best way yet.

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    Replies
    1. Yes the blobs move up, leaving the paltoon command and the 5 man GH squad in reserves whom then sit onto home objectives. With my IG +SW list I also have 3 heavy support which can claim in 1 of the missions.

      Yes as you stated, I have deep striking because of the lack of mobility in the list :)

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  5. Hey look at Killswitch post..about time bitch! lol

    I agree with all your 'assessments'/thoughts on 6th.. wouldn't knock any of it..

    Lists.. hmm...must admit, did instantly get this familiar over-the-pond-TK feeling that I occasionally (once per year around late Aug/Sept) get when looking at a 'new' Alex cocnept.. but that said, I'm just breaking your balls buddy.

    Wolves as Primary Detachment over IG as primary all day long.
    Few questions/comments:

    Hydras - really still not great versus fliers as they don't have Interceptor, their presence just strongly highlights target priority for incoming fliers to kill dead.

    In the IG list, you have 3 Hydra platforms - 150points.. should that not be either 2 Hydras or 225pts? Are Hydra's not 75 a pop.. Or is this some FW shit?

    Blobs..power axes, MBs...hmm sure I did see this somewhere... just smile and take the jabs on the chin bra'h.. ;)

    Blobs are great, 2 blobs even better if you can still have support..

    Out of interest and to satisfy my curiosity.. why Njal and another RP over the inclusion of any long fangs?

    Fuck off the MotW on the 3 squads, sack Njal back to a regular rune priest, sack off one LW and then you can get in several good fire support units?

    Granted my time in 6th has been split 70:30 with Crons:Wolves, so perhaps I am biased.. but this list, whilst balanced and decent, doesn't petrify me.

    c-, Killswitch. Can do better. ;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was waiting for it ;) lets start from top to bottom:

      List, well you can break them all you want, I COULD just say I have spoken to people, including Kopacj at the ETC about this list and variations of it for a while, but then who would believe me eh?

      Wolves as primary, I am almost 100% certain I will be using that list, as everyone knows wolves are my baby love child. Not sold on it entirely yet but needs more playtesting.

      Hydra Platforms are forgeworld peices (the UK tourneys atm are letting them through). They are Hydras but AV 10 on platforms (so immobile) but have interceptor AND skyfire :) 50pts a pop!

      Blobs, read above. Its a great way of utilising the way close combat works now, and mixed with Space Wolf powers, its fantastic to really bring the best out of those blobs. Also note how I make the blobs threatening in RB missions by giving them a resistance to assault (flamers) and sitting back during KP missions (Autocannons).

      Njal, because at the moment...he can kill fliers. He is the only thing which can reliably kill fliers from turn 4 onwards (I saw reliably, but you know what I mean). Chain lightning is the bomb!

      Motw, well its gotten better in this addition, and gives the unit an actual threat to anything which may assault them. They lack a WG with fist, and a s a result needs a rleiable way of killing Characters or what not with a 2+ save. Ok maybe not reliable but its something.

      Fuck long fangs, they are so useless in this addition. They will knock some hull points, woopty do, they really wont bring much I need to either lists without breaking overall efficiency.

      If your not petrified, well, you shoudln't be either way. I don't know what I am doing after all :(

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    2. Haha..he comes back strong!
      OK, so I know FW is now allowed in many UK tourneys..these little bad boys may cause some grief then, at 50pts a go not a bad shout at all..Av10 is not great, but I assuming they have Hydra range so are partially protected through this and partially protected through large volume of infantry targets presented.
      Dude, on the breaking your balls.. you know it is just that, nothing more ;)
      Njal I am still meh towards, I know he is a beast in some circumstance, not sure about the flier/chain lightning thing..but then I've been getting back into work after the summer break and haven't really looked at the FAQs properly.
      I'll accept MotW as a personal preference thing bro, just see it as a wasted 15, therefore 45pts for me, combine with Njal and there are near to 300pts to play with.

      And what about Njal and the extra RP? So many points. Sure, I run 2 RP standard, but I just can't see the value here.. the CL Njal thing is important to clarify.

      "Fuck Long Fangs" - you take that back! How very dare you! I accept that these lists are designed to not need them as much or get as much from them, but I still argue they have a place. Krak is still strong, frag is great utility

      Lastly, don't be so mockingly self-deprecating you sarcastic bastard! You don't know what you are doing!! ;)

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    3. Actually FW currently is allowed in all GT heats, most maelstrom events and Brighton events. I consider that considering I go to those the most, that its fine for now :)

      Well without MOTW I have 10 dudes with plasma and a Banner. That's not good enough for me. As you say, preference. Njal I can play with but like I said, still play testing :) Main reason for now is that CL has been FAQ'd in UK tournies for now to effect flyers, if that changes, so will my list :o

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    4. Clearly going to have to investigate the FW flier book, not for defence for myself, but to figure out how to smash it..
      :)

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  6. Njals lightning effect can't hurt flyers anymore with new FAQ no?

    Love Tony

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    Replies
    1. Where does it say that bro? I see no where in the FAQ's that state otherwise, and the UK FAQ council have ruled that it does here so not sure :)

      Gratz on the win at Nova, watched you rock it like a boss ;)

      Alex

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  7. Q: How do maelstroms, novas and beams – or indeed any weapon
    that doesn’t need to roll To Hit or hits automatically – interact with
    Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures? (p13)
    A: Only Snap Shots can hit Zooming Flyers and Swooping
    Flying Monstrous Creatures. Therefore, any attacks that use
    blast markers, templates, create a line of/area of effect or
    otherwise don’t roll to hit cannot target them. This includes
    weapons such as the Necron Doom Scythe’s death ray or the
    Deathstrike missile of the Imperial Guard, and psychic
    powers that follow the rule for maelstroms, beams, and
    novas.

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    Replies
    1. Chain Lightning isn't any of those O_o?

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    2. Is that the exact wording of the FAQ? Then that's that for CL.

      Unless of course you want to spuriously argue about the term 'weapon'..

      Delete
  8. It's an attack that doesn't need to roll to hit/has an area of effect

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    Replies
    1. Yeah I guess your right. Iuno its a fairly ambiguous ruling in that FAQ. If thats the case though, back to the drawing board it is :(

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    2. what are you thinking now? I'm running a similar build, but the gavel has hit and the sentence read at most of my local areas because of knee-jerk reaction to nova. There isn't even room to argue against the horde of people going the other way. I'm leaning towards basic rune, more plasma guns, maybe some AC HWTs

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