These are simple. My last couple of dozen games were with a Coteaz "Core" army, I've been playing the book since it hit and by having a good understanding of mechanised forces I can play these guys with minimal (read: two weeks) refresher games..
There are some simple variations on the 'Core' concept.. Again, I have 3 lists for you to contemplate..
1) My core
2) Alex's Core
3) Fun Core
First Option: My Core
This is the army I have the most experience with of the 3. This is an important factor.
Second up, the Core armies fall down on survivable troops, that do fold when put under pressure. So in this force we have Terminators with attached Malleus Inq and Coteaz attached, we end up with a scoring unit with wound allocation and 11 2+ wounds.. They also kick out well in CC with I6 Halberds at S6, plus 6-8 S10 Hammers...both of these stat boost to S are, of course, down to dual Hammerhands...Coteaz also gives this unit Sanctuary to help receive and dissuade a charge.
Rest of the army? Purifiers take the lead with Terminators in support plus a couple of Razors, second wave of Razors with Dread support in cover behind the Razors...
Squishy troops are often left in reserve, especially in C&C missions, where they can walk on to the home objective later in the game...
Anti-Heavy Tank we have the rending psycannons, but also 5 S10 Hammers that are based in disposable, mobile units.
I often Deep Strike the Termies into midfield off of the Servo Skulls if they are unlikely to see action in Turn 1/2, this can be a great deterrant, but also brings the Hammers and relentless Psycannons to bear in the right place.
Coteaz
OMInq – TDA, 2 Skulls, Hammer, Psycannon
3 x 5 Purifiers, 2 Cannons, 2 Halberds, 1 Hammer – Razorback, Psybolts
2 x4 Warrior Acolyte - Boltguns, Razorback – Psybolts
3 x 3 Warrior Acolyte - Boltguns, Razorback - Psybolts
5 GKT w. Cannon, Halberds, Psybolts
3 x PsyflemenDreads
Option 2: Killswitch esque..
Alex has been running this force for a while, essentially a Coteaz Core plus Strike Squads and DCA, with a little sprinkle of melta. It is effective, lethal, has the same number of KP's as the Option 1, 22!! but for me, has less in the way of survivable troops...however, it is more mobile, has DS defence from Strike Squads, the same firepower and CC touch...so I think I will certainly give it a try over the next week or so..
Coteaz
Purifiers 2Cannons, Psyback
Purifiers 2Cannons, Psyback
Purifiers 2Cannons, Psyback
3 x Wacolyte 2 Melta, Psyback
3 x Wacolyte 2 Melta, Psyback
3 x Wacolyte Psyback
5 x DCA, Psyback
5x Strike Squad Cannon, Psyback
5 x Strike Squad Cannon, Psyback
3 x Dread
This is not the same as Alex's...but it is similar.. and whilst not inspired by origianlly, it is an ode to the long haired goon.. ;)
Option 3: Fun Corps...
Coteaz
2 x Ven Dreads - Psyflemen
2 x Psyfledreads
2 x 6 Inq Troops - 5 xDCA, 1 x WA (Ride in Ravens)
3 x 3 Warrior Acolytes, Razorback - Psybolts
2 x Storm Raven TLPC, TLMM
1 x Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporters
10 vehicles still (counting the DK), a good split between aggressive assault force and long range support firepower.. Could be very effective and fun, but knowingly...is not as strong as the others above..
So let me know guys, what are your thoughts on these bad boys?
I have a different (totally different) take on the 1750 GK lists.
ReplyDeleteI feel it gives a decent flexibility, but its also something you may or may not have the models for.
Neways, here is the list I use for my GK 1750 tournaments.
Grandmaster
10 Strike Marines, 2 Psycannons
10 Terminators, 2 Psycannons
10 Interceptors, 2 Incinerators
Dreadknight, Personnal Teleporter
Dreadknight, Personnal Teleporter
With the Grandmaster you always have a minimum of 5 Scoring units, with a maximum of 8. The aim of the list is to shunt everything forward so your enemy has to deal with the Interceptors & Dreadknights letting the rest of your force move at your decision.
Its not a 1750 list there as i have only given them all the most basic of wargear there are plenty of options.
Another variation I use, is only 5 Terminators and I add in a Stormraven & Dreadnought. This means the entire army (minus the strike marines) gets right into the enemy face nice n early.
Your lists are very MSU, and in my area MSU is what people hope to play against so I havent tried them yet (I also need more models to do it effectively).
Hi Kraggi,
ReplyDeleteVery different indeed! um..it's not really very me mate, I prefer to win a few games. Jokes!
Do you have the Termies and Strikes scout from Grand Strategy when in KP games, or do you reserve and play KP denial?
How do you find the army without the presence of any long range weaponry at all?
Do you find you have to spend at least a turn, if not two getting everyone into range to fire? That includes reserving for DS on all the army?
Fair play for trying something different mate!
I honestly have to say, having played around with pretty much most of what we talk about on this blog, Alex's core was by far and away the best list I've ever played with.
ReplyDeleteIts only "lacking" spot was strong long range fire power ... oh wait, it still had 12xS8 and a metric ton of twin linked S6 shots.
My only complaint was that the Aco's suck. They are terrible, they aren't guard where you get value in 10 of them with 3 melta's, or an autocannon to tophatch with. They are 3 or 4 bodies that if they see fresh air generally will die. Which is why the GKSS for me were so important. Plus their utility was dead handy.
Your first list is strong - certainly, its damn shooty but does rely on the purifiers for the real heavy lifting, where the second list can get support from meltacide aco's for tanks or "invul toting troops", or DCA for deathstars. Every unit has a long range threat, to every type of unit.
The one thing I did find was that the purifers were nice in rhinos, first turn or two, but merit of being such a big threat, they took a lot of fire, so they'd stay in their pilot'd razor for a while, however, 2xpyscannon > psyback firing - then once it had unloaded its payload, it became a blocker/cover generator or picked up some de-meched aco's - who could now top hatch their melta's in safety.
I love the final list though, just by merit of most opponents will be "WTF" when they see it. It is literally chock full of threats. Dreads can all but win a game on their own, but if you target them and fail to take them down, they'll open you up for the raven to devastate you. The dreadknight is a not-so-silent killer. In bad lists its an easy target, in lists where you have 4 / 5 other threats early turns, it is an issue. That list is also perfect for my star wars army. Dread Knight believable as a AT/ST? I think so.
In case you are wandering, this was my 1750 list:
ReplyDeleteCoteaz: 100pts
5 Purifiers: 199pts
2 Psycannons, 2 Halberds, Hammer & Razorback with Psybolts.
5 Purifiers: 199pts
2 Psycannons, 2 Halberds, Hammer & Razorback with Psybolts
5 Purifiers: 194pts
2 Psycannons, 2 Halberds, Hammer & Rhino with Dozer Blades.
5 Grey Knights: 171pts
1 Psycannon, Hammer & Razorback with searchlights & Psybolts.
5 Grey Knights: 171pts
1 Psycannon, Hammer & Razorback with searchlights & Psybolts.
3 Henchmen: 62pts
Razorback with Psybolts.
3 Henchmen: 62pts
Razorback with Psybolts.
3 Henchmen: 62pts
Razorback with Psybolts.
5 Deathcults: 125pts
Razorback with Psybolts
Dreadnought: 135pts
2 Autocannons & Psybolts.
Dreadnought: 135pts
2 Autocannons & Psybolts.
Dreadnought: 135pts
2 Autocannons & Psybolts.
As for my new list at 1850 (since the ETC is 1850 and a few tourneys will take the same route):
Coteaz
5 Purifiers: 234pts
2 Psycannons, Hammer 2 Halberds & Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
5 Purifiers: 234pts
2 Psycannons, Hammer 2 Halberds & Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
5 Purifiers: 234pts
2 Psycannons, Hammer 2 Halberds & Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
3 Accolytes:97pts
Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
3 Accolytes:97pts
Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
3 Accolytes: 62pts
Razorback with Heavy Bolter & Psybolts.
3 Accolytes:62pts
Razorback with Heavy Bolter & Psybolts.
5 Deathcults: 160pts
Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
5 Deathcults: 160pts
Razorback with Assault Cannon & Psybolts.
Dreadnought
2 Twin Autocannons & Psybolts
Dreadnought
2 Twin Autocannons & Psybolts
Dreadnought
2 Twin Autocannons & Psybolts
Total: 1845pts
Either one is devastating lol. As for a reply to Andy (Atreides) I'm sorry but there is no way in hell a Chimera with 1 autocannon in it is further redundancy or "MSU" over 6 Hydras. I can get a cover save for my 2 Hydras from one chimera, only needed to cover 1 half of a Hydra, meaning my reliability has sky rocketed. 3 Vendettas gices me plenty of Lascannon support, and 2 Command squads gives me plenty of reliable orders, plasma and melta. Psyker battle squad gets rid of non fearless deathstars, and I still have suicide melta on the Vets. Its a perfect list, which even my GKs struggle against.
@Bull, think the last list might be perfect for Blog Wars..because it really is quite silly!! A sensible list+general should take it apart.. its not for Brighton..and yeah, Dreadknight-AT/ST for sure...
ReplyDelete@Killswitch - "a perfect list"? Behave yourself boy.
So why did the strike squads get booted? I enjoyed having marines in the army last night, a real benefit over just acolytes.
I don't really want to play catch up and figure it out for myself through playtesting as I don't have the time!
The truth is, there is not THAT much more I can add to the list, certainly I could add ONE more unit from FA, some Interceptors perhaps even a Storm Raven... but really, the only thing the list is missing is melta, and there is alot of attritional firepower and S8, plus there is always CC to handle real heavy stuff.
The list I tried out was a variation on list 2 above, it was very effective, I threw in a squad of 4 Incinerator-toting Purgation dudes in a Psyback instead of a few meltas and the standard 3rd dread, they were fantastic.
Every time I've used them I have loved them.
PLayed vs a typical tournaement DE force full of Baron, big Hellions, Venom spam, Ravagers...the Hellions moved into midfield Turn 1 as is standard practice, in cover (3+ or 2+ save if go to ground) and are used as a moving cover provider to the other skimmer vehicles... however, a 12" move, 2" disembark, 1" base and a flamer template is further than you think and I torched all bar 3 in the first turn, the Baron (ld9) fled off the board with the rest of the unit... Kabalite made an angry face.. ;)
Oh and Killswitch, like the 1850 force. Very strong, having the Psycannons on the Razors gives very nice mid range supoprt and I would imagine is very deadly... perhaps throw that in at 1750 as well...let me check..
ReplyDelete