Sunday, 16 January 2011

X Legion Tournament List Options - Ven's choices...

So with Atreides taking IG to the X Legion tournament in Feb and with a shot at some my first Rankings points of the year at stake I have a choice…

Do I go with IG or BA?

I have been working on my tournament-specific IG army for some time now in secret and not so secret (you can see more or less how it looks here)…this is not really for pick up play at the gaming club, unless its against someone I know is looking for a tough, competitive whomping.

But this has been and still is a Blood Angels themed blog!

It may very well seem at times that it is anything but that…and I appreciate that we have actually lost one or two followers/readers over the course of the first 9 months due to SoS covering more than what is implied in the title…

With this is mind…what do I do? Both armies are bought and ready…but thinking logically, you guys are not going to want to read batrep after batrep all about IG are you…half IG and half BA sounds a lot better to me…
In terms of strategy, we as a community will develop more from having a more varied spread of army and how different forces respond to different situations…

But what would I take IF I go BA?

Well its 1750 so the possibility exists for either plenty of dakka or a rock or 2 combined with plenty of dakka…

Note: All of this is based from what I own and is more or less finished painting due to time constraints

List 1:
Furioso Dread (av13) Frag Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Pod
4 x LasPlas Razorbacks with 5 man RAS (3x Melta, 1 x Flamer)
Baal Pred – TLAC, HKM
Baal Pred – TLAC, HKM
Pred – AutoLas
Pred – AutoLas, HKM
Pred – AutoLas, HKM

Plenty of high quality shooting. A lot less in terms of volume compared to the IG lists I’ve been thinking of, but the quality is far higher. Except when the IG get into the midfield/close up and unleash all the melta/plasma… hmmm…more combat punch obviously, Mephie gives great board control/area denial and a massive punch if needed, plus psychic defence which is not present in IG…

List 2:
Libbie – Unleash Rage, Shield
Sang Priest
Ass Termies – 3 x LC, 2 x SS/TH, Land Raider Crusader – MM, EA
3 x LasPlas Backs, RAS - flamer
1 x Hvy Flamer Back, RAS – Melta
Attack Bike – MM
Attack Bike – MM
AutoLas Pred
AutoLas Pred
AutoLas Pred

Bit more of a classic BA list with some very hard hitting combat from a nasty rock style unit, less in the way of shooting, but still some high quality shooting present. I fear that this army is just too easy to close down with a well built and played IG army…I’d just alpha the LR or hit it in my turn one and stop it in the midfield…even at 1750 I worry it’s a lot of points tied up in one basket…

I prefer List 1 as I am not a naturally aggressive player with Mech armies. I prefer to control movement and shooting…a more defensive style.

Then there is the ‘lol’ option….

List 3 –
Sanguinary Priest-Jump Pack
Sang Guard – Banner, 3 x Infernus, Powerfist
Sang Guard – 2 xInfernus, Plasma, Powerfist
Sang Guard - 2 xInfernus, Plasma, Powerfist  
Sang Guard - 2 xInfernus, Plasma, Powerfist
Speeder – MM/HF
Speeder – MM/HF
Speeder – MM/HF

Hehe….bite me fuckers. I am really tempted….

In the interest of fairness…the IG army is here at 1500…at 1750 we add Marbo, Demolisher and up the quality of a few other guns… 

What do you think chaps? Should I stay the course and be a little boring with a powerful IG army...or do I just go for the more 'fitting' for the SoS blog and hit up the BA? It'll still place me in the Top 5 (which is my aim for every tournament I attend) I think....your thoughts??


  1. I personally like the first BA list. It seems balanced as well as not having a huge points sink anywhere (other than maybe Mephiston but he's a special case ;) )

    My worry with the second list is if the LRC gets popped say turn one or 2 then that expensive unit of termies is much more vulnerable. Not to mention 250+pts has gone in one lucky roll of the dice... not cool.

    The third list could work in a tournament scene although if you mess up your scatter rolls then there are potentially going to be alot of expensive mishaps. Also if you were to come up against a list like the first BA one then every man that gets killed by a lascannon is almost the cost of the razorback firing said lascannon! So maybe too easy to blow away?

    The guard list will do well if you take it so it's really just up to what you fancy playing with on that front.

    Hope all that rambling made some kind of sense.... :D

  2. My thoughts;

    While I think anything you play is completely up to you to see what you have as the best chance or most want to play, I can see your point, especially if you and Andy both do battle reports. But given how many lists of BA's you've put forth, I have a feeling you fancy playing those lol.

    Lists 1 and 2 I like. I really like list 1. I have a soft spot for both dreads and terms, but a 165 drop pod furisoso combo is less of a point sink/risk than the 600 point term combo (just ask Andy about how I nearly lost all my terms because of no where to put my terms when the raider got wrecked lol).

    I've always liked Meph, and he is such an easy choice, a rock and a HQ in 1, while still giving LD10 psy defense, also he offers himself a bit of redundancy in that he could in theory pop a transport to assault the insides. His nature of being a beast makes him viable, but I do think that he is not always the best choice in mech lists, or isnt the "ideal fit".

    I like list 2 a lot - v.siliar to what I played in game 2 yesterday, like I say above and what Stargazer mentions, and we all know, a 5point meltagun can undo so many points in a single shot, obviously if that LR is anywhere near where it needs to be ... then your golden.

    Get Corbulo a hover board so he can join his superfriends! Its one of those lists .. I love sang guard, I really want to field them, I want to put them in my jumper list, but you just feel you shouldnt :(. I feel that this list is just either going to be glorious or horific, either way, bazillions of re-rolling power weapon attacks and mephiston - re-rolling his power weapon attacks, it is literally "how much AP2 did you bring to the game?".

    I'd love to see that 1st list go, while it probably is the most balanced, its kinda unique as well, which is cool. I'd like to see battle reports either which way anyway (in general tbh, make for good "work" reading lol.

  3. yeah! go as BA, i can beat them more easily than guard ;)

    just dont use a rock unit, i think its pointless in BA lists. in the game yesterday i very nerly succeeded in destroying a 550 point unit as well as its crusader transport because they couldnt deploy. in a tournament i'd have called a judge over to make a ruling it was so close. although the unit didnt really go on to be very helpful (certainly not paying for itself) it did mean that Bully was still in the game. if he'd lost it, that would have been game over. its just to many eggs in one basket.

    BA, to my mind, excel at mobile MSU lists. list 1 therefore gets my vote.

  4. I'll be the oddball and say...

    I'd go BA, personally, but I wouldn't do MSU.

    A lot of this is affected by your local metagame, though. My area loves mech, so I play anti-mech and most armies don't know what to do w/me. Meltaguns will only pop one marine at a time.

    I'd go jump BA with Librarians (rage and sword - preferred enemy is a huge buff), Priests and maybe a unit of terminators or a few Baals. That's just my personal preferences, of course, but I think it plays to the BA strengths more than a ton of razorbacks.

  5. @Atreides...keep talking shit son if it makes you feel better... ;) won't help your chances when I stomp your ass with my glittering emo-marines...

    List one has it across all your other points guys, thanks for them too... :)

    I've just playtested both the IG and BA1 vs one another and video'd the whole lot... will put it on the site tomorrow with some written thoughts...

    suffice to say:
    1- it was bloody tough.
    2- BA won on secondary & tertiary objectives (TQ, VP's) it was a tie on principal (Objectives)
    3- DropCannon Dread worked beautifully...
    4- AV13 across 6 hulls is tough for my 'favoured' weapon...the doesn't matter how may Hydra's you field..
    5 - Demolisher worked beautifully , whilst it did not destroy more than 1 vehicle, it successfully suppressed an Autolas pred last turn to prevent a BA straight win on Primary Obj. soaked up a lot of fire too...

    specifically on the IG front...
    1 - I need to remember that a 4+ from turboboosting to a better firing angle is not a) always going to save me or b) not always necessary...50% to glance or better on an AV13 hull is worth it through volume...side shots are not always optimal.
    2 - It was good to actually move the chimera's around...they are usually too static as I just pump out suppression fire...they got across the board to claim the empty BA objective and gained the draw for me...

    On the Mephiston thing... yup, great threat range, board control etc...but it's as Atreides and I say...fuck him.
    Fuck him with plasma.
    Fuck him with melta.

    um, if you don't you're fucked though...

  6. interesting to see you talk about moving chimeras around. i noticed that you were very much in favour of static play during the doubles, whereas i've always liked to keep a few free to move forward and delay/block (except in KP games).

    as far as Mephiston goes, in future i wont be scared of him or let him deny me any ground, i'll just make sure he has too many melta targets to deal with in one go, and then... squish (thats the plan, anyway :P)

  7. Sorry but what? Dont take a rock unit? Ba do rocks the best. Look at the masters. Pete drew against joshs guard, and he even pulled up more then 300vps over him, giving pete a 11-9 draw which is awsome. Pere would have won if not for ending turn 5 and the faq on vendettas which is crazy stupid.

    Mephiston is a must imo. He brings so much, its stupid not to. Anyone incapble of using him will think hiz rubish, but when me and pete play, we know how he works and what he can do.

  8. Congrats by the way...5th right? Nice to know we can hold our own (and technically beat *cough* VP's *cough*) against such top competition... ;)

    I am in favour of Mephie, but I am also not ignorant to the ease with which good players can neutralise and remove him, which is not to imply you are Alex, merely to say that he is not the be all and end this case, for me...he is superior to and contributes more than a Libbie and another Baal pred or Razorback...

    Whats this Vendetta ruling thats craazy dude?

  9. Yeh I agree his not the be all, but certainly one of the best things going in the dex.

    As for my 5th placing, pretty poor result. took an army ive never used and it showed. made big mistakes in 2 games (including game against neil which cost me 2nd place). Should of gone first in dawn of war, but alas I was to trust the stupid voice in my head, rather than use my common sense xD! Ah well, learnt a hell of a lot, and lost only my KP games, both which were the worst match ups I could of had (daemons are one of the best anti-mech armies apart from guard period).

    As for the Vendetta rulling (which considering I play guard and disagree with this) was as follows:

    Dont take DT tests for the vendetta unless the base touches terrain. Enemy and friendly models can pass under the vendetta but must stay 1 inch away from the base. When shooting, the hull is the whole of the model. If an objective is on a building, and the vendettas hull is within an inch it can contest.

    Basically it was given all the advatages and no disadvantages. Pure filth and badly ruled imo!

  10. Yeah, Mephiston is sweet and provides alot...he'll be in my BA 1750 until something convinces me 1500 I think I prefer other bits.

    5th... taking a force you've never used? Dude... really? what was the rationale behind that? IG being so pissing strong that a well constructed force with a good player would see it through? I could see that, but wouldn't do it myself...brave shout.

    Vendetta ruling: I actually agree with that EXCEPT the DT test thing...I say if the model is over it, it takes a test... otherwise, it's as you say...all good, no bad.

    Demons - I play a demon player very regularly so I'd agree to an extent, but I'm not sure I agree they are so strong...

    May I ask for your thoughts on them bro?

  11. Stop tempting me to bust out Mephiston vs Andy on Thursday, I know I'll see some smug smirk when he AP1/2's him to death with his vets lol.

    @ven where's those reports you said you'd have up!

  12. Andy put up this post so its waiting til tomorrow! lol...

    Don't bust out Mephie vs Andy until you've had some practice with're right, he'll just be plas/melted...!