Thursday, 21 March 2013

The Voice Speaks - Codex Deamons Review - a not so knee jerk reaction

So - as you may know i usually do a review the weekend a book comes out. I didnt this time, partly as i was busy and partly because....well frankly i hated the demon book on my first read. Chaos is my first love and i did not like what they had done to my beloved faction. I thought a knee jerk reaction would be very negative - so ive read and re read and tried a few things out now to give a more informed opinion.....

...and ive changed my mind.....kinda.....its still a combat orientated army in a shooting environment with a massive crippling rule in combat...but there are ways round and fun stuff to be had.

Still the loss of some of the ++ saves, immune to insta death, fearless and having to use psy powers properly (and taking perils!!!wtf) does very much change the army.

So lets start:

First the basic rules:

Instability - lets you go to ground as if you wasnt fearless but ignore shooting casualties as if you were. In combat however (with your very avaeage ld) your taking additional casualties for however much you fail any break check... can be crippling as tar pit units are just not a thing deamons can really do now. 

All deamons get a 5++ save, no longer immune to insta death and have a mark that adds the following:
Khorne - Fc
Nurgle - Shrouded, defence grenades and slow and purposefull
Tzeentch - reroll saves of a 1 and ld boost using psy powers
Slannesh - fleet, rending, addtion distance on the run/boost moves

Big winners here are slannesh i feel


You cant buy wargear now, you can only roll for random abilitys but with an option of swapping for a "primaris" type 0 ability. Basically always take greater powers on anything offensive and take and exhalted one on any sit back characters (like a herald manning a quad gun) - the greaters boost your resilience and or damage out put and the exhalted lets you take a grimore or a portaglyph. Both very usefull.

The new warlord traits:

Actally pretty good, though there is the usual maditory duff one that "helps" with fear tests -.-

Psychic Powers:

Tzeentch - all baggins - why ...why...WHY..have a rule that gives your opponent fnp!! go big or go take enough horrors etc to guarantee a unit a turn (and i mean like 50 guard blobs here) or dont bother as your only going to help your opponent.

Nurgle - not bad, a mixed bag and short range but hit hard.

Slannesh - another mixed bad. One godly spell (acquiescence), pretty good primaris and then 2 ok ones.

Again, i think slannesh won on this little issue

Warp Storm table:

Ok this is my biggist bug bear.. I dont get why its there. Its too random. And its basically building in a negative play experience for you or your opponent. Yes morst of the time it can be seen and i kinda shooting attack. But if you roll really low or really high there is a good chance someone in the game is going to be unhappy due to dumb luck... i hate it. Yes it might win you a game, but do you really want to win just cos you rolled box cars rather than actually out playing you opponent? I for one dont...  ho hum.

Ok so the meat an potatoes, hold on its going to brief and punchy :)


Skarbrand - slow and buff your opponents, expensive but hits like a truck. Might work in a slann army where your sure of going first, getting the buff and whipping people before they can attack back

Fateweaver - Hit hard with the nerf bat, no aura now. You can still make him pretty much unkillable with a grimore of true names but his damage output is low. Mainly because i loath the new tzeentch powers.

Kugath - not bad i suppose, I used to love him but hes only level one, his pie plate isnt as good and the nurgle spawning rule got nerfed for no good reason that i can see.

Bloodthirster - pretty good. give him 2 greater powers to get some tankyness to him and let rip. Fmc are always good. Especially when they hit like a freight train

Lord of change - can take access to divinatoion for some nice reroll buff about. but hes not as choppy as the thirster and ranged damage comes from the baggins tzeentch powers  - hes just too expensive to take as a divination support caster solely.

Great unclean one - take 2 greater powers, level three in biomancy and have yourself an unkillable warlord. Fun stuff but slow.

Keeper of Secrets - Cheap. Can have access to telepathy and the good slan powers. Give him 2 greater gifts and run upfield. Not that tanky really and not a flyer so you have to be quick but can be a great utility character - especially if you get acquiescence and then take deamon princes of slan too.

Deamon prince - can get expensive. But do become heavy support if you have a greater deamon of the same power. So 5 Fmc lists are very doable. Take 2 greater powers. Make them slannesh. Swap one power for the 0 ability which is lash of despair (2d6 s 6 shots) and there you have your anti flyer option for deamons.

Skull taker - cheap, ok, only and ap3 weapon

Karnak - has scout - brilliant. Lets a unit race up field quick and then gives them rage and hatred buffs. You will see him a lot especially in cav centric builds (personally i think cav and fmc and maybe soul grinder spam are the only really viable builds)

Heralds of khorne - choppy and cheap. Can take a jugger...maybe put 2 in that unit with scout cos youve added karnak? and give them the ap 2 +1 s sword each... enjoy. Can take loci with buff units nicely for combat. Can take a chariot, but its really just painting a shoot me sign on it if you do.

Changeling - a level 1 herald when normal ones can be level 3? na , avoid

Blue scribes - wha?...ergh? meh? of my fav models... not an Ic with useless abilitys...just avoid. Cross it out your book. Mourn the loss of one of the last codexes most fun characters.

Herald of tzeentch  - with divination it can be a good support caster - can throw lots of flickering fire down field with a unit of horrors too - but....the warpflame rule makes its just a bit arse as a tactic. Nice locus thats add strength to the flickering fire shots - makes them s6 - so with rerolls this can be passable anti flyer.

Epidemius - his buff went from army wide to within 6 inches. It also go harder to get (maybe - more nurgle stuff can throw shots downfield now i suppose) but its really not that inspiring. His locus (the ability he gives his unit) isnt even the nurgle one that gives his unit why bother

Herald nurgle - makes a great warlord. With shrouding, and fnp locus and rocking a portaglyph behind and aegis with a quad gun. Resilient and nice scoring bunker. Look into one if your going hordy and want a cheap usefull warlord.

Masque - 2 wound and not an doesnt matter how good her abilities are. shell never use them more than once

Herald of slannesh - makes a good assasin - loci can make challanges automatic to pick out crypteks and the like, Pretty choppy too with an either blade.


Blood letters - much as they were but t3 now. Cheaper but the most expensive scoring troop. Not a bad choice

Pink horrors - as said. go big or go home. take 4 big units with a herald in each to make sure things die or just dont bother. Ironically with the save reroll they can make great msu objective sitters if they go to ground and DONT SHOOT ANYTHING....

Plague bearers - great msu objective holders with shrouding. Also thier weapons make them passable walker killers which certain builds might have trouble with.

Deamonettes - large units with heralds will be nice. Fast and hit hard. Squisshy though. But for 9 points who cares.

Nurglings- infiltrate, but dont score. so i dont see the point.


Blood crushers - got an extra wound but lost the t5. also lost thier power armour too. So very squishy. But i do here the armour may be a mistake and will get an faq. If so.. Bang karnak in there with a few herals and wreck face. If not. avoid.

Flammers - use the tzeetch psy powers. Take your models and put them on the "pretty shelf" till the next book.

Beast of nurgle - im undecided. Expensive but resilent. Fast too. Good counter attack unit but expensive to just sit around. Need a play with i think but far from useless.

Fiends - lost attacks but got more wounds and got the godly musk rule. Better than frag grenades. If you want an assaulty type army to work you need to take them or skull cannons...its that simple. Reducing initiave by 5 (nothing about minimum of 1) means most things are not attacking AT ALL on the turn you charge. Throw in a second unit of somthing to do the heavy lifting (like a blood thirster) and just wreck face,

Fast attack

Flesh hounds - 2 wounds with ws5 cav? for a marine price? with scout? take them. take lots of them...

Screamers - lost alot of bite attacks but kept the slashing attacks - not exactly useless but not the crutch that they used to be for deamons.

Plague drones - undecided. resilent  and fast but the damage output is a little lacking for the points

Furies - cheap as chips but a baggins ld means they have to have a baby sitting herald i think. Still, if you want to go hordy..not a bad shout

Seekers - cheap, very fast, lots of attacks. I think the only real question is how many to you take when you want flesh hounds too? i think 2 units of seekers and one of hounds as a screen will be the preffered load out for fast attack cav lists.

Hell flayers - avoid- if you want them take the heavy support version you can take in squadrons. Im not sure what its doing there in the first place.

Heavy support

Soul grinders - cheap and utility. Has sky fire but i think that the average bs makes this only an ok option.. not a manditory one. Shrouded nurgle ones will be the more popular choice i think.

Skull Cannon - basically a battle cannon with ap 4 that gives out frag greandes to your army. Keep em protected and they will be a good addition to your assaulty armys.

Burning chariot of tzeentch - a fast skimmer that cant move to fire its baggins psy powers....avoid.

Seeker charots  - not a bad shout actually for the damage the put out. Personally id run 2 HP2  chariots screening a HP4 one at the back. Good points to damage potential ratio.

Ok so thats it. And in case your wondering this is what im playing with at the moment:

Bloodthirster - 2 greater powers
Keeper - level 3, 2 greater powers

5 fiends

10 bearers
10 bearers
10 bearers
10 bearers

Deamon prince of slannesh, wings, armour, 2 greater powers
Deamon prince of slannesh, wings, armour, 2 greater powers
Deamon prince of slannesh, wings, armour, 2 greater powers

ta da!!




  1. AP5 on the Skull Cannon, bud ;)

    How are you finding the Keeper? I tested one once and it was ok, took ages for it to go down. I hope I can get invisibility on it if not I'll deep strike it.

    How have the Princes been working out? I have used them myself and they are not too shabby.

  2. i like actually - especially if it can get the fearless power as as far as i can tell it would override the instability and make it an ok tar pit unit too :)

    oh yea and ap 5 your right.. slip of the keys.

    and princes of slannesh put out some serious fire power on masse