Let's play with one of the cool rules/mechanics of the new Necron book - Quantum Shielding.
This adds 2 points of AV to every facing of the Necron vehicle until the first Penetrating Hit is suffered.
This turns the rhino-esque Av11 front, side (and rear) Necron vehicles a rather pesky Av13 all round.
Been having trouble recently with GK Psyback spam armies, Psycannons too (unless its a Stelek Psycannon vehicle spam and who, in reality, runs that?)? IG mechanised forces full of Autocannons and Multilasers? SW full of Missiles?
S8 or less? Really struggles with AV13. Of course, with S8 there is still a 33% chance of glancing or penetrating..
Fully half of these (S8, logically derp...) will be glancing and will not remove the Quantum Shields.. That goes for those bastard Psyflemen Dreads too...
What about damage?
The glancing hits are quite likely (1, 2, 3, 4... so 66.6%) to be shaken or stunned, which due to the second special rule - Living Metal, can be ignored.. 1's on a 2+ roll and 2's on a 4+. Damn strong that.
However, there is a balancer here.. the majority of the Necron vehicles (the ones with QS anyway) are open topped.
Yeah, kinda sucks, but balance is important I guess.
So the damage and Living Metal... this reduces the likelihood of 1's/2's to 50% instead of 66%...
What about cover? Boom! 4+ cover...we'll take that!
Sit back and take it? This may be the highly frustrating solution.. or not.. I'm sure a better version will come along, but at 1750 this is what I have to play with...
Overlord - Warscythe, Command Barge
Cryptek - Harbinger of Destruction, Eldritch Lance and Solar Pulse
4 x 5 Warriors - Ghost Ark
3 x Annihilation Barges
3 x Triarch Stalkers
6 x Scarabs
So we have a whopping 11 AV13 vehicles at 1750. Pretty god damn frustrating.. clearly at bigger point levels we can bump the troops up, play with Lords and Command Barges to tie up the midfield, increasing survivability. The BargeLord can do his Sweeping Attacks with his S7 2D6 pen versus Vehicles, the Scarabs just draw fire and draw and get some Entropic Strike in, making your 6 ranged units (Triarch's and Barges) even better...
Wait. Let's make it worse.
Let's pop off Solar Pulse and you can't really shoot me from mid- to long range.
We can use decent cover, or alternatively the narrow front profile of the Ghost Ark, to get some cover and then generate some ourselves.
We can also just push the Stalkers into midfield and get their 2 shot Multimelta's into place, preferably in cover and under the cover of a Solar Pulse (or in the knowledge that you are going to "pop the Pulse") - these guys can't be ignored and will take pressure off your 5 Av13 troop transports.
The Barges can use the Ark's for cover and both can just move to create cover and lines of fire in your turn.
Close combat? meh. I2 Necrons don't want to lose combat, which means they don't want to get in combat.
I'm not saying this is the best list in the book, not by a long shot...but it is certainly tough for a lot of armies out there...
Once the enemy has gotten past the Triarch Stalkers in midfield, push your Barges up front to slow them down, actually, keep them firing and push up a couple of empty Ghost Ark's, sideways, to create a massive wall of Necronage...
this is all very well mate, but i just don't think it can actually hurt anything a great deal. you have a few S 7 shots and a few meltashots... and then stuff that will just bounce since you don't have enough scarabs to lower AV's successfully.
ReplyDeleteInteresting list dude. I'm not sure on the small Warrior squads, even with Ghost Arks as they will only pump them back up to 5 models strong.
ReplyDelete@ Atreides.. agree to an extent. At the minute, I am building simple lists that just an aspect of the codex. Not a complete final produt by any means.
ReplyDeleteWith this we have 12 S7 Tesla, 6 TL MM shots, 3 S7+2D6 on a fast skimmer and one S8 from Eldritch Lance.
Agree it is not enough anti tank.
But it is spammed out Av13 and I don't think you can get any more from 1750..
We can see how tough it is, now we need to bring it down to a more acceptable output level..
Think Scarabs are very important, but also the highest priority target when they bomb forward, hence the Solar Pulse here as well as for vehicles, but think Necrons need an offensive output that works without them..
@Mercer - Very true, I'm not sold on the min sized troops, this is just an exercise in list building... versus Razor spam marines? 25 T4 3+ in a Av11 box OR 25 T4 4+ Reanimation/Ark in an Av13 box? tough shout no?
For me, the biggest issue with Ark's are they have no offensive output except versus troops... granted they are open topped and I think that is necessary to try and get a load of Eldritch Lance's shooting off them..
I am a big believer in large units of warriors. And in transports i would up them to 10 men each. Its an extra wave of Gauss if nothing else (the joys of open topped!), that if I am correct can shoot at a unit other than the Ghost Ark itself.
ReplyDeletei think my issue is that i just don't like the Ghost Arc, i think it is a pointless transport. you don't want warriors to be getting close to the enemy, and the thing offers little in the way of shooting to justify its existence. plus immortals are just so much better value anyway. plus have you seen the size of the damn thing, it is MASSIVE.
ReplyDeletei am quite prepared to hear why people think it is good, after all these are still just first impressions.
Across other armies, we are prepared to put up with AV11 on our transports, but we see greater offensive output - I'm talking Razors here, or even Rhino's as bunkers for a pair of heavy weapons..
ReplyDeleteIn IG this is the case as well, AV12 and S6 plus HHF.
Eldar get mobility and S6 spam.
Tau get ...umm 4+ Disruption pod? av12? S5...not much...
I am trying to explore the necron transport and what it offers.
It is massive, 2 in a 'wall' can block off alot of terrain, LOS, block at Av13 which is decent.
they can provide mobile cover for the Barges..
they can be hijacked by Lychguard to assualt out of the top...
Pivot (2-3" gain), 12" move, disembark from tip (2" plus termiantor base ~2") and assault 6" ...get 10 Lychguard (400 points bargain!) and mass assault the enemy gun line with 30 S7+2D6 attacks.. mwuhahahaha!spreads across 4-5 vehicles on Turn 2?
Only for 515 points... lol bargain.
so I think there are uses for this transport..
just think at 2K you could add a load of destoyers for more ranged s9, have crypteks in each Ark for more fire support and bulk out the troops as well to make them more surviviable..
This list at 1750 doesn't work, but it is a frightening prospect to consider killing/stopping etc..
I'm just playing around mate..
no i completely understand what you are doing, but i think it is important to question what works and what doesn't (and why!) while you do that.
ReplyDeleteperhaps with the barge, a good option is to have one or of them bolstering troop numbers and providing support/extra movement range if required. it just seems odd to have a transport where the troops WANT to be outside!
can lychguard use this transport? there are restrictions on troop types and i don't know if they are allowed without having the codex here. would be pretty nasty if they could!
interesting to hear you talk about destroyers, since i haven't seen a lot of talk about them. i don't think normal destroyers are worth it any more, mainly due to fast attack slot competition, but heavy destroyers certainly could be great. a S9 gun that moves 12" and fires is nasty.
I am seriously thinking of running 10 Destroyers, they will carve up infantry units, and enough 6's will bring anything down.
ReplyDeleteThe Ghost Ark is probably best used as a safety net. You could theoretically have an Overlord in it with your Warriors, he can be given Phaeron and then your Warriors are all Relentless. Ok so its only 9 shots at 24", but add in the other three weapon systems on the vehicle and you are running in at a fair amount of firepower, which is scoring.
I have wonder about having two Ghost Arks, on either flank of a bank of 20 warriors (who benefit from the extra models) its an expensive troop selection rocking in at 750 points, or thereabouts but its a lot of Crons and a lot of firepower!
Good catch Atreides, no Lychguard hijacking...damn, I just can't seem to get much use from the close combat units as much as I try..
ReplyDeleteIn relation to wanting to be outside..Kraggi touches on something with a Phaeron upgrade to your Lord. Allowing 9/18 more Gauss blasts later in the game after Entropic Strike has run rampant could be very useful..but I do agree in general, the 'Crons are happy enough on foot.
I paused in mid sentance there and considered Venom spam DE and then remembered Solar Pulse..
I think the list yesterday with bigger blocks of Warriors worked well. I'm going to reinvestigate that..
Destroyers - I love me some. I need to find a use for my 21 (inc Lord) 3 x 2 Heavy D's are a good way to get real anti tank into the list, as well as great mobile counters for Paladins etc, as well as normal Termies of course.
Of course, with 3 fast slots filled, there is no room for entropic strike scarabs, but the question then is...are S9 shots not enough for you? Combined with the Melta and Barges? That's REAL anti tank at a variety of ranges, AP's, rates of fire, on different platforms..you know, all the usual stuff we ask for from an 'efficient' army.. ??
Plus, the Destroyer Lord with a 2+/T6 is just too cool! Warscythe? yup, that's anti tank too!
indeed, which is why i like heavy destroyers. very odd that they are more heavy support than any of the heavy support options!
ReplyDeletethe relentless overlord thing is what i wanted to take adantage of with the list i posted yesterday. it would be awesome with a squad of 10 warriors or 10 immortals.