Friday, 28 October 2011

Vanilla Marines: Can they still hang?

One of my favourite images of SM..
More 1750 tournament options from me today. I'm thinking Space Marines now, the first army I owned when 5th hit and I started playing again...they have a special place in everyone's heart...even if it is becuase you are warped and twisted and hate them..but even so, that passion is important lol!

So how would I do Space Marines for the upcoming tournament...well, again, we are going to go with what I have..luckily that is a fair ol' pile o' stuff...

I think the first and most likely option would be a variant of the Stelek 'Best of' list.. GMort covered Vanilla Marines a few months back and this very much reminded me that they are still a relevant force...check out his stuff over at GmortChaotica...

Now onto lists and breakdowns:
Option 1: 'Best Of' with a twist

Master of the Forge - Conversion Beamer
5 x Scout Squad - ML, Telion
2 x 10 Tactical Squad, Meltagun, ML, Rhino
3 x Dreadnoughts - MM, Fist (2 x Elite, 1 x Heavy)
2 x 2 MM Attack Bikes
2 x Dakka Preds
10 x Assault Terminators - TH/SS

Leaving the Scout Squad with the MotF in a fortified ruin gives them a 2+ save and 2 long range weapons that will be very effective, this gives us the baby sitter objective holding unit I discussed yesterday in the Sw Options post. We can combat squad the 2 Tac squads, leaving the ML half in the back to ping away shots and claim objectives later in the game, in the meantime the 2 rhino's push forward into the midfield providing cover to the advancing attack bikes...The Dakka Preds stay back field and provide anti infantry fire as well as cover to the home units (if needed due to poor terrain), the Dreads use the rhino's for cover as well and once in the midfield, provide excellent MM support and can tarpit appropriate units and smush a few with their fists...
Then we have 10 Assault Termies who'll just run forward and reap havoc...

I must admit, I do really like this force..

Option 2: Vote for Pedro!

Pedro Kantor

3 x 5 Sternguard 2 x ML, 2 x CombiMelta, Rhino
2 x 10 Tac Squad CombiMelta, Meltagun, ML, Rhino
5 man Scout Squad - Telion, ML
2 MM Attack Bikes
2 MM Attack Bikes
Dakka Pred
Dakka Pred

Here we have a mass of scoring units which I think is absolutely crucial for 5th and the current gaming environment. We also have 5 units of dual melta dudes as well as the 2 pairs of MM attack bikes to go hunt for tanks, with the attack bikes getting shots off from the first turn, even though not at half melta range, but it does mean the army can volley off 13 S8 shots for the first turn. At the same time, the dual melta tac combat squads are pushing into the midfield with the attack bikes, taking position.
The dakka preds and thunderfire provide a huge amount of anti infantry firepower...
Let's not forget that Kantor can contribute an Orbital Bombardment as well for lol's...

Option 3: Umm...I may be bored by now...

Terminator Librarian - Storm Shield, Gate of Infinity, Null Zone
2 x 10 Tac Squad, CombiMelta, Meltagun, ML, Teleport Homer, Rhino
1 x 10 Tac Squad, CombiMelta, Meltagun, ML, Rhino
1 x 5 Scout Squad, Telion, ML
10 Assault Terminators - TH/SS
10 Assault Terminators - TH/SS

Haha. So one squad of Termies DS's from reserve off of the 2 midfield teleport homers. The other 10 man starts on the board and Gates around into position via the Libbie.. the 3 combat squads with double melta move into midfield to get the homers into place, but mainly to get the melta's into range.. the 4 other Troop units can claim objectives later in the game, but provide some measure of long range support. This force primarily focuses on the 20 Terminators causing havoc and drawing the vast majority of enemy fire...I think it'd work alright, but I also have 35 troop bodies that are quite hard to remove when focussing on 22 Termiantor wounds...all with 2+/3++ and smashing you with Null Zone supported TH's...

So let me know dudes, what do we think of these options..

We are almost at an end to the Army options, just BA and DE left to go, then the best of each will go head to head to see which is the your opinions and mine!


  1. that third list is actually terrifying.

  2. The Termies would do quite nicely as anti tank..but it'd give the opponent a few turns to whittle them down.. only 4 S8 shots per turn and some midfield melta..
    The Termie squad on the ground to start (with Libbie) could run behind a solid block of rhino's so no shooting at them before removing the rhino's....which is, of course, not hard, but a PITA with smoke..

    In Capture and Control, I could literally push 50 marines (20 TH/SS Termies) into the enemies lines and leave the scouts on mine... haha, that'd be fun

  3. I second what Atreides said, and I'm one of the sad people who still runs Lascannons in their Long Fang packs

  4. That third list appeals to me for some reason ....

    I actually tried a very similar one with Black Templars, but that is a far better build.

    If you could get Shrike into that .... :P

    Vanilla marines are just that, vanilla. They are by no means outstanding, but they also don't have any glaring flaws that make them unplayable. They have resiliency, good leadership and rules, solid scoring that presents melta options, combat squads and cheap, and some what resilient/low priority scorers, then a plethora of FOC shifts, or ways to buff/improve other slots, such as MOTF to shift dreads out of the elite slot, or Pedro to give just absurd scoring options.

  5. Not gonna lie, I don't rate any of those lists but hey, I'm one mean son of a bitch to please lol!

    Terminator list should really move to Templars to get the Prefered Enemy and run towards you like madmen trait.

    Pedro lists are like a weak attempt at space wolves centre push...but arn't and the first list is a simple shooty list (note I say simple due to the lack of long range) and the only thing going for it is the reliability of those Termies speed bumping other army advances.

    If I was to do Vanilla, I would go down a specific road like you have done with the 3rd list, except shooty. Something like triple rifleman, triple dakka preds (cept maybe lascannons) triple typhoons backed up with las/plas.

  6. To be honest, I don't really feel any of the lists are really as strong as they could be, but the first one certainly comes the closest. I don't understand why the Dreads aren't running twin Autocannons, though.

    #2... well, it's got a TFC, that's one strike. And it's desperately short on bodies due to investing in Pedro and Sternguard.

    #3... is just a "rock" list, and not even a particularly good one. You're rushing forward your Tacticals (which means no shooting) to try and deliver TH/SS... who are still on foot and won't get to assault the turn they arrive, meaning they'll likely get blocked/shot a lot before they can do anything relevant. And you're completely at the mercy of the reserve dice and have no backup plan or support.

    You also seem to be in love with Telion+Scouts. :P Not a bad squad, but it doesn't need to be stuck into every list.

  7. @Killswitch, thanks for the comments bro, the alternative suggested - shooty marines, is good for sure, but I think other marine codices can be done better..

    @Puppy...List 1 no twin-auto's becuase as it is, I can't free up 60 points required, plus, after turn 1, they are in perfect position for MM action and a real pain in the ass..
    List 2, TFC can go to a Dakka Pred easily enough or indeed another pair of MM AB's... As for bodies, yes I guess it's light, 40-odd marines in metal boxes know what, that's not bad.
    List 3: Clue is in the title on that one, did say I thought I might be bored, lol.
    Still GoI makes the on-board Termies highly mobile and the pressure of Turn2/3 20 TH/SS Termies in your lines, even if they don't multi assault your whole army until the next turn is pretty scary as a concept.. 30 scoring marines in the midfield not too bad either..
    With that babysitter unit too..

    So come on then, we all know list 1 is the closest to being 'good' if not 'pretty damn good' do we make it better?

  8. I think a revist to Vulkan builds is in order for Vanilla marines!

  9. So I have many moons of experience with the vanilla codex since release and I've not switched to the new hawtness of sw ba or gk. I can safely say all of these are good but not really on par with todays newer bools efficiency. Take alook at what I've run so many times against. Some very hard lists of the new dexs.
    Librarian nullzone avenger
    2 autocannon dccw dreads
    10 hammernators
    2 x tacts with combimelta.melta MM
    1xscout scout with telion and ML
    2 x MM HF speeders
    3 x Dakka Preds
    Provides plenty of anti vehice and anti horde, enough scoring and yes dual ac dreads have a place just not here.