Tuesday 16 August 2011

Lots of Lists! Dear lord what to play!

Howdy! So its been a little while since I've chimed in on the gaming side of things on this site, outside of a couple of lists. In honesty, its been because I've been a bit stuck recently for ammo, purely because I've just been playtesting/learning some Grey Knight lists. Not to mention when I had full intentions of getting a couple of posts up while Venerable was away, I got struck down with the worst case of food poisoning. But anyway, apologies for not getting anything up over the weekend!

Right now, I am sort of stuck as what to play. Its not quite burn out, I still am eager to go down and play, but I can't quite get set with what I want to use. Grey Knights have been taking up most of my gaming time, but in honesty I can't quite get settled with them. Its leaving me in quite a bad position of indecision. We have Brighton coming up in early November, which means if I want a new army I do need to get started on the painting side soon. I'll certainly have another event after Brighton, and maybe look for 1 or 2 more before then (looking like maybe Tolworth Mayhem in October if I can get a place).

So the long and the short of it, I desperately need to settle, and quick!

There are a few options I have at my dispossal, the only painted option is the Deathwing, which is a serious option to consider, then there is the WIP Grey Knights and option to run pretty much any Marine Codex, the learning curve would certainly be hit with GK or BA's quickest, as outside of DW, they have seen the most play time and testing.

If I am to start a new project for October/November Tourneys, this does give me time to get painting done - largely construction is done, especially on things like tanks and the GK's.

If I stick with Deathwing, this certainly alleviates some problems I'll be having. First off I can put in a lot of time and effort to the next army, or even "speed" one via airbrush methods and finely construct another (giving me more options in the future ..)

Anyway, nothing is complete with out lists right? Really these are the sort of things I am looking at:


GREY KNIGHTS:

Coteaz

5xPurifiers (Halbx2 PsyCx2 DH) - Rhino
5xPurifiers (Halbx2 PsyCx2 DH) - Rhino
5xPurifiers (Halbx2 PsyCx2 DH) - Rhino

5xGKSS (PsyCx1) - Psyback
5xGKSS (PsyCx1) - Psyback
5xDCA - Psyback
4xAco (MGx2) - Psyback
4xAco (MGx2) - Psyback
3xAco  - Psyback

Psyfledread
Psyfledread
Psyfledread

This is where I am at right now. I was actually running 5 troops, 2 of which were Psykers in Chimera's and I did quite like the dynamic of it, but I felt it was a bit boring to play (and unreliable) - plus I was really apprehensive having no melta. This way I get 4 melta - which not much they can punch forward, I have plenty of objective sitter options and chasis's to block. Purifiers in Rhinos have been far more effective for me than the Psybacks (which I have 6 any way so its no major issue ...) and it allows me to get those remaining dudes back into a tank and top hatch if required.

Of all the lists I am looking at - this is by far the most balanced, even if its not perfect in itself.

The other alternative with the GK's was the Crowe based list:

Crowe
6xPurifiers in Psybacks
3xDreads

Just spammy. This is probably the best GK list for me to curve into as it does play very similar to DW, and simply put, remove the 2+/3++, but add in mobility and flexibility, your still playing with fearless troops expected to handle pretty much everything. Better yet - no one really seems to play this army!

Final list is just a variation on a theme:

Libby 
Inquistor w/ Psycannon
10xTerminators (or 5xPaladins)
4xSquads of GKSS 
3xDreads

Actually, oddly enough out of most of the lists I've played, this was probably the most enjoyable, but I still feel it has the least amount of tools.

BLOOD ANGELS:

Mephiston 

2xSang Priest (LCx2)

5xRAS (MG) LasPlas
5xRAS (MG) LasPlas
5xRAS (MG) LasPlas
5xRAS (MG) LasPlas
5xRAS (MG) LasPlas

1xMM Attack Bike
1xMM Attack Bike
1xMM Attack Bike

RifleDread
RifleDread
RifleDread



1715 atm. 

Really this is just a way of fitting in my desire to play Mephiston. I'd love to bosh a LRC with Terminators in there, but I guess better sense of judgement held me back there. It has a bit of everything - fast melta, plenty of AT and the riflemen can help out on both sides of the game, while only S7, with 5 lascannon shots and plenty of melta going around, there is less of a dependence on them to de-mech than say in my GK list. This does need improvements (and 35 more points ...)


THE DEATHWING

Bel....

Well this list isn't changing. I've played pretty much every variation I've seen, been "told to play" and none have the right balance I find. I've certainly heeded Venerable's words of "fuck it" when it comes to my tendency to sometimes be overly passive.

The other 4th Ed Terminators ... Black Templars:

I tried a foot list the other day, and I just didn't really get on with it. I didn't beef up the troop choices enough, but they were still dealt with way to handily for my liking. I am looking at trying a mech variant.

Emp Champ (Witch)

5xTerminators (2xCML) - Tank Hunters

5xTerminators (2xCML) - Tank Hunters


5xInitiates - LasCannon/Plasmagun - TL-Lascannon Razorback (Search Lights)
5xInitiates - LasCannon/Plasmagun - TL-Lascannon Razorback (Search Lights)
5xInitiates - LasCannon/Plasmagun - TL-Lascannon Razorback
5xInitiates - LasCannon/Plasmagun - TL-Lascannon Razorback


Predator - AutoLas (SL)
Predator - AutoLas (SL)
Predator - AutoLas (SL)

Its lacking the Typhoons, and I do feel a bit light on troops due to having quite pricey razorbacks. Tempation would be to drop one predator for a vernerable tank hunting dread (maybe with ML as well) and change to dakka preds. With 4xTL-Lascannons, 9xS9 missiles and TL S10 lascannon, I think the anti-infantry might be wanted, and that would make up for the lack of typhoons. With that I'd still have the same mech (7 hulls, a ven AV12, 2xAV13 and 4xAV11) and still the same bodies.


SISTERS OF BATTLE?


This is the perfect option for me if I decide to run either Deathwing (or Black Templars,which need the least amount of work since 33% of the infantry is done!). I could take my time painting them to start running them more in the new year full time. Given that my DW has the most experience I could run these in the "grey plastic" mode to see what's what ...

I was not impressed with the initial half of the codex, like many others. We saw so many issues, like non-scaling faith points and less than impressive powers. There are some bits in there I do like, Saint C looks cool (and probably top 3 favourite model of all time), and I do like the idea of Jackobus - though I wish the confessor took that role as I much prefer his model, and looks like he'll be essential in any army.

For me, the second part will go a long way to shape what I plan to do. I think most people agree, cheap enough units and some decent wargear options / maybe FOC swaps will do the army some justice. But I really feel like I want to be running SoB - it has absolutely gorgeous models, despite them being 2nd Edition metals, and I have a couple of great colour schemes in my head. 

But I really am just hoping for some nice dynamic options in the 2nd half, otherwise, I just get the sinking feeling that playing SoB will be liking playing the 3rd Ed Codex, but actually in a worse position!

Yeah ... really no closer 


Truth be told, I'd say my "simplest choice" is with Deathwing or the Coteaz list. The deathwing I really do feel attuned with so to speak, it gives me a lot more time to do everything I want to do (paint, play SWTOR in Nov, dick around with the new PC in the meantime). The Coteaz list is great, but so many people run variants of it, that you just feel like you'll play playing a lot of mirrors.

Can someone just batter some sense into me please! I'd actually love BroLo's take on some Black Templar list's, they have been intriguing me the msot recently I have to say - been reading a lot of Nike's back dated bits on Bringer of Victory as well as BroLo's stuff on 3++

28 comments:

  1. I'm bored of seeing GKs. Well... I was 2 months ago and still am.

    BA... a lot of reliance on Mephiston for any CC threats and IMO not the way BA should be played (LasPlas is not ideal for midfield, fast-moving transports).

    BT... the most 'flavour', but as you've said we have pricey razorbacks. I'm personally not convinced with Lazerbacks. I know Marshal Laeroth (http://www.implausiblenature.net/laeroths-blog.html) uses them with some success. Nike also uses them I think.

    The list I've been using of late is...

    EC - AAC
    2 x Terms - 2 x CML, 2 x CF, THs
    2 x 5 man Las/Plas
    1 x 10 man Melta/PF/Rhino
    1 x 8 man Melta/PF/Rhino
    2 x Speeder (TML/HB)
    2 x Auto/Las Pred
    1750

    There are only 2 speeders and 2 preds, mainly because I can't be arsed to have more unpainted vehicles, so I've refused to buy 3rds of each until they're done. However, I have found, even with this list, I have no problems opening light transports and I also like keeping the midfield threats (EC/Ini/Terms - yes I do advance them). I suppose they're played a bit like SW in that sense.

    I'm nowhere near done with play-testing (I want to try out a lot of variants - AssCan Terms/PotMS Preds/Foot Assault Terms), but I would be very hesitant to NOT include the speeders if I'm being honest. The only way I'd almost certainly not do it is in a very terminator heavy list.

    After a dumb 5000 pt apocalypse game the other day, I actually really want to try out some more bikes and assault marines. They'll never be awesome, but flying storm-shielded melta bombs will always be a little bit scary.

    That's why I love Templars... they give me that little bit of Monty Python madness I tend not to see with many other codices. You'll also never have more fun than rolling tons of dice and then seeing your opponents face when you re-roll all the misses time after time. But yeah... Abhor is a very good alternative.

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  2. Oh... and SoB... I think the fact that I forgot to comment says a lot.

    Poor girls.

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  3. Haha.

    I like that list - it seems more ... sensible. I'll certainly give it a go.

    The BA's your spot on, there is a reliance on Meph to pull the list together - the Lasplas could quite easily be AssCan's but I am not a huge fan of the 24" as my luck with the damage charts have actually seen my AssCan BA's rarely shoot :/

    I really am moving away from wanting GK's. I do love the models, but given the theme of my DW I can quite easily convert them to normal marines, much in the way that Atreides is doing normal marines to GK's! I mean just look at ArdBoys - 40+ GK's. At Brighton I avoided them for 4 rounds .. then faced them in the last two. Andy played them 4 times I think? Just silly really, and I almost feel like I don't want to contribute to that.

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  4. I was going to ask if you've found any success with footbased BT lists BroLo? I know you had the "fun" one for Blog Wars, but run anything else?

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  5. Hey, sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. PROTIP: Don't buy a HTC phone.

    I'm not a fan of AssCan's either. S7 ones are better, but yeah, they're not fantastic for me.

    Yeah... the GK bandwagon is already full, no more invites. Did you not hear?

    WRT foot lists. The one I took to Blog Wars was purely for a laugh. If I similar list was 'optimised' it would still not be optimal, but would certainly be playable. I wouldn't expect to win anything decent with it though. The best kind of foot list BT can do (and do well) is a drop pod list (if that counts? - http://www.implausiblenature.net/bt-101-building-another-competitive-5th-edition-list.html).

    The problem with foot lists is you need terminators, but due to their expense and the fact their not troops, you end up being short on troop numbers and/or having very few threat vectors. Deathwing are the better option for this... numbers are made up for by 2+/3++ and you get your missiles spread through more squads.

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  6. Well honestly - Deathwing are my baby anyway - so I'll play them still.

    I think sometime last night/this morning I made a decision on what I am doing - its really quite simple, but I'll have a post up on it in a day or two.

    Just had a look at that Drop Pod list - very tempting if I didn't have to buy that many drop pods haha.

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  7. You can't do that to me!

    What's happened to Ven anyway? Does he really have a twisted nutsack (testicular torsion) ? If so that's funny! One of the most painful things going!

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  8. God know's, I think he got himself "lost" in a strip club.

    In other news, just found enough Dark Eldar, that a mere 222 (odd I know) quid investment gives me well over 2k of actually "good" points - the usual venom spam malarkey.

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  9. And yes I can do that ...

    I'll mostly be playing DW by the looks of it, the other list/lists are going to really be "uncompetitive but fun" ones for my local store. Though I think I might make the Black Templars list you suggest - since I have more than enough bits for it.

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  10. Venerable Brother's stricken liver17 August 2011 at 20:41

    I'm back!! Ended up extending the stag to surf more!
    Then just been trying to recover the last couple of days!

    Don't worry BroLo...my nutsack didn't end up being twisted...just soft tissue damage of some description..was incredibly painful..couldn't boon for ages!

    Right, honestly? I fully agree on the GK shit. I'm bored to death of it. However, the Coteaz stuff is very effective. This makes it ripe for tournament play..You'll play against alot of it anyway...
    SoB? Depends on other half of 'dex...but I am guessing no go.
    DW...still strong, ready to roll, well experienced.
    BT/FBT.. need to be experienced with an army I think to win a tough tournament..don't think you can do it in time..nor can I..our army ADD stops us from eluding that "jack of all trades" stigma..
    BA - strong book, familiar army, painted models...great shout..

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  11. Yeah honestly I think I'll play DW till the end of the year, right now I am just going to play something to "get familiar" with it for some of the new year bits around Feb.

    But now we can all scorn Atreides for his GK army.

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  12. When's that Bully, 2015 when Andy finishes it? Itll be an outdated relic of a book before his anti-grav rhinos are done lol!!

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  13. He's made some crazy ass progress on this army.

    He keeps saying "next year next year", but I reckon he'll have it actually made by just after the new year!

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  14. made yes, painted... hmm

    biggest problem is i cant afford to BUY the razorback kits i need to finish right now. also, i am just not motivated to build or model or anything right now. oh well, it'll get done eventually.

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  15. Andy I have 2 unmade rhino kits sat right beside me that I'll never use.

    Want to take them off my hands and pay me later? 20 quid for the two?

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  16. Personally... winning with something I have no interest in... interests me not. I'd rather have a struggle with a list I enjoy and place decently.

    I would say standard hybrid BT (terms/speeders/Rhinos/Preds) are actually pretty easy to play.

    I agree that BA is an option, but I'd prefer to see Preds or Devs over rifledreads. I'd then save some points from some of the Las/Plas Razors (only have 2 for backfield play) and then drop the bikes for furiosos. That's my kinda list.

    Glad you still have 2 balls Ven...

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  17. 2 Rhinos for £20... you're a mad man. If he says no and you want rid of them, you know who to call.

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  18. Bro Lo basically that is the gist of what I am going to be getting at.

    I've done the competitive thing when winning actually got me money, to go to events was paid for, and the stuff I used (PC's laptops) was generally paid for or "lent" to me.

    Deathwing are competitive enough, and I play them well enough (when not being a tard) ... and they are fun (25 terminators cant NOT be fun).

    Some of the stuff I am looking at using:

    My OLD OLD school Grey Knight terminators (I.E Rogue Trader) just finished paint stripping them. I want to paint these guys to the max of my ability.

    LAND RAIDERS. Thats right, melta guns can go go roll one's!

    I actually love Furioso Dreads, they are so much fun - I have a pretty good way of making a BT/BA army cross over without having to do 2 much work (thank god for magnets eh?) - and just found my 2 speeders while clearing out some stuff.

    Will have a fiddle!

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  19. Sorry that comment was mainly aimed at Ven's comment on the 'Coatez stuff'. I like the idea of Coatex because the units COULD be so wide ranging. I'd pay a small fortune to see somebody make non-DCA/WA henchmen work.

    I had to search for my TML sprue and rip off the MM dude after the FAQ came out. Stupidly though, I just glued them on in a rush instead of working out a way to magnetize them.

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  20. Yeah, I've made them to the "point of magnetising" - I might have glued maybe 2 step to far, but I am pretty sure I can magnetise.

    I knew you were talking more at Ven, just agreeing with you :D

    Yeah the Rhino sprues, well I am going to hold them over his head when it comes to his dreadknight ... I'll demand that I get to paint it because I saved him cash lol!

    In other news, tons of this stuff just sold on eBay. The storm raven I never realised I had just went in seconds!

    My random marines of randomness, if they dont go I'll spend a weekend painting them to table top quality and bosh them up for twice the price lol.

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  21. it's nice to find random stuff.

    I've just been thinking this evening... I have some missile launchers and some scouts lying around. I've been wanting to do a low model hero-hammer style TWC list. It'd nice to build them into my BTs, but Knights on Wolves would look a bit silly.

    Oh... and I'm already doing Tyranids... slowly.

    Maybe I should just sell some of the stuff to stop the temptation. Donating the Sang Guard to HoA helped with that a little. Now I've got bloody Space Wolves floating around in my head!

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  22. I do love this however...

    http://goatboy40k.blogspot.com/2011/08/goatboy-oh-my-gawd-wednesday-post.html

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  23. Errr I was thinking Hero Hammer for a bit earlier this evening. I noticed I had some Ravenwing bikes unmade, and I still have my Lion's that were going to be TWC.

    I was thinking it might be a cool little side to my mini-chapter, a sort of mobile "knight" force, but I dunno, even as bad as some of the guys are at my local store I just see lots of my guys dropping straight away lol.

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  24. Yeah I found some cool painting projects to do - like my Space Hulk things - some fantastic bits there to do (Will do the nids bits first though ...)

    Also if this Eldar doesn't sell, I wont begrudge doing some Harlies ;D

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  25. Venerable Brother's strained larynx18 August 2011 at 08:52

    ahhh,boys you are so sweet with your back n forth...
    @BroLo..on the 'Coteaz stuff'..I did agree with the pair of you at the start of that sentence..it is boring and makes for an uninteresting game, but you cannot deny the tournament dudes will be loving it. You need to have developed in your list a little swing back to the early 5th building mentality of having loads of anti tank, as this shit is heavily mechanised. If we just ensure that the tools used to reduce this force is also effective at another role...the Chemcannon Hellhound...for pounding elite infantry as well, the Tank Hunter AssCannon..for putting serious wounds on MCs etc etc.. there has been a definative swing, IMHO, towards hybrid armies to negate the usefulness of all the specifically anti-tank, this Coteaz spam (at tournament level only) forces a slight push BACK to mass melta units..for example.

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  26. What can I say... it's a 4th Ed Bromance...

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  27. Ven's just jealous, watch him post a Black Templars list just to try and join our club!

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