Monday, 25 July 2011

Revised Wolf List - Post tounament tweaks

Lord of the Thundercats...oh shit, wrong animal!
Following the epic "averageness" that was me at the last 1750 Tournament I attended (see report here), I was left with my Wolves feeling that a little something was missing...

I needed more killy.
Now, this is odd as I took ~8500 VPs from my opponents in 6 games. So I can clearly kill stuff.

But I really felt that I needed something of a "Hammer" unit to crush stuff with whilst it was tied up with the "Anvil" that were my massed Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard squads. Something to do it quickly and efficiently, rather than the protracted and extremely bloody combats my GH's were stuck in. I often felt the need to sweep away the units in front of me so I could bring more Melta to bear on tanks etc. I couldn't do this though as the GH took their sweet time killing shit.

The other element that I felt I needed was speed. I couldn't close quick enough, often feeling that if I could only get stuck in sooner I could bring the other elements of my force elsewhere, knowing that the swift Hammer had tied something up or killed it.

What did work?
Well, I always had a crap tonne of models left. GH's were frakkin' everywhere! I also felt like I had plenty of dudes in different places to claim multiple ultimately, I dont want to fiddle with the GH's too much.
I had far too much shooting! 20 missiles per turn, 8 of which are relentless is too much. It was how I killed so much shit on the way in...rocket contrails obscuring the sun as the GH's raced forward in rhinos...
I can afford to cut it down to the standard 3 packs of Long Fangs though...4 or 5 missilesper pack is the real question.
Scouts were wicked fun as always, although I only fired the Combi-flamer once the whole tournament, but it was useful as it took out a load of Stealthed-up IG Vets on his objective.. so for 5 points, I won't whine.

So the real areas to trim are the 'odd' choice of 2 full packs of Wolf Guard. I knew they would be.
Oddly, the Rune Priest is also an area that I am willing to move on. I felt that the massive amounts of anti psychic defense were so very strong in alot of armies that I failed to use it. Certainly Living Lightning was poor. Jaws on the otherhand was very good vs the 2 Deathwing armies I faced, but stil not a game winner.

This is alot of points to play with, the 2 wolf guard packs clocking in at over 500 points, add in a Rune Priest and we have over 600 to play with!

Where to spend it?
Within the Wolf codex there is one real area to spend this many points on super killy dirt machines.
The Wolf Lord.
On a Thunderwolf.
With a really big hammer.
He also needs some other buddies with him to catch bullets and hit at Initiative rather than last..

So lets just build it out, I'll keep it quick though, everyone and their dog knows how to build this guy, its not rocket science.
Wolf Lord 100
TW Mount 45 (+1S,T,A)
Runic Armour 20 (eats missiles)
Saga of the Bear 35 (eats Nemesis Force Weapons and S10 for breakfast as if were oats or some shit)
TH/SS 60 (S10 Hammer and 3++)
Wolf Tooth Necklace, Wolf Tail Talisman 15 (hit everything on a 3+? thank you, please)
2 Fenrisian Wolves 20 (poor pups, this is abuse...but they catch lascannons and plasma etc)
295 points
Wow. That's alot of gear for one dude. Not sure I need the WTT? Drop it? OK. 290 points...

He wants a mate or two. With the high volume of attacks I love a Wolf Claw dude on TW. Throw in a storm shield so he too can take a big shot or two before he croaks.
Throw in a bog standard TWC dude and he can even eat a missile for fun... plus S5 rending and 6A...
These 2 increase the survivability of the big dog and also add to the variety of hitting most dudes at the same time, I can really thin shit out before big dog swings his hammer...
150 points for these dudes.

I am happy with my GH but want more plasma as I have lost it from the Wolf GUard units, so I turn one GH pack from Dual Melta to Dual Plasma (1xCombi WG) ...only adds 5 points to the cost too.

Want to add Wulfen to my GH packs too as it gives more attacks and possible rending.. 15 points per pack though is expensive...doing it though..

So, lets have a look then:

The Big Dog Fafnir –290 (as above)
Thunderwolf Cavalry x 2 – Plain, Wolf Claw & Storm Shield 150
Wolf Guard x 7 , 2 x Storm Bolters (2 for LF as bullet catchers), 5xCombi Weapon (4 for GH, 1 for Scouts), 5 x Power Weapons (4xGH, 1 x Scouts) 207 points
Grey Hunters  x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Wulfen, Rhino – 170 points
Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Wulfen, Rhino – 170 points
Grey Hunters x 7, Meltagun, Banner, Wulfen, Rhino – 170 points
Grey Hunters x 7, Plasmagun, Banner, Rhino – 160 points
Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers – 115 points
Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers – 115 points
Long Fangs x 5 – 4 Missile Launchers– 115 points
Wolf Scouts  x 5 – Meltagun – 85 points

Total – 1747...I think, check it will you!

What do we think guys, is this stonger than the 70 body, 20 missile shit from the last Tournament?
More conventional?
More dangerous?
I will do the 40kmetrics on it tomorrow and compare the two armies..
I've only tried this once vs a purifier army (the one from HERE) and well...the Wolves tabled the Purifiers on turn 7...
Any of you guys had much experience with ThunderLords? Let downs? Triumphs?


  1. I like the theory behind the changes - its a big distraction OR clean up crew. However I do not like the dropping of the Priest.

    You say his offensive capabilities were a bit bland with all the defence around, but how about his 4+ power of no? Saves you being on the receiving end of crap or helping to shut down GK shizzle for example.

    It would be hard to fit him in now - the fang bullet catchers prob would have to go, along with the pups and maybe some wargear (wulfen?) - but I think that will be a regret if he's not in there.

    Other than that I like the list. Andy is going to say Fear/Pysker Battle Squad, so I'll save him the finger cramps - Fear / PBS! - and with those bullet catching dogs in there ...

    As for my experience. I've only played against them twice, and both times I had my wing on the table. They did munch a reduced squad, but then promptly got eaten, but thats a bad example as really they'd be the counter charge unit in the back field or midfield against DW to stop/slow my progress.

  2. Venerable Brother25 July 2011 at 20:27

    so 2 issues:
    1) Rune Priest...4+ is wicked. Don't get me wrong. It can, and frequently does, swing things where psychic shit is involved, but I want to move away from it just to try without it. I can fit him back in fairly comfortably, with 3 wulfens, bullet catchers and 1 only a net loss of 2 marines..and overall perhaps a far more impressive gain.. but just for a few games...

    The second reason for not picking him up is actually GK. THe most hardcore GK lists I've seen attending tournaments seem to be ones where the only real use of psychic powers is pissing Fortitude. This is typically in Coteaz spam and Purifier lists... both of which rely on firepower over mind tricks.. so fuck em. let them have their fortitude...I'll have an auto-penetrate hammer, see how long Fortitude helps...

    2)PBS. Fuck PBS. Fuck Fear. I am fear itself mother fucker. You want to pull that shit off, go for it, I'll just kill that shit first..come on man, we all know it dangerous so just chuffin kill it first..or let them pump firepower into it...the big dog doesn't score..

    Now, I know I'd rather it not happen at all, but I don't see enough PBS to really have that big an impact on my playstyle...

    All this said...a RP will probably worm his way in again...

  3. Well I only say Fear/PBS because I know Andy would ... and its also why dudes with those wolfstars take that second one with Majesty which is handy - but your 4+ from a rune priest any way hehe ;D (if he makes it back in).

    I like the list anyway - I like TWC

  4. Venerable Brother25 July 2011 at 20:59

    Majesty just gives a reroll...minimal help if your are LD2/3 or whatever from PBS...very useful from FotD though...

  5. Its funny you should write about this Ven because I have been having the same problem with my Grey Hunter based force. Yes they are the most bad ass troops ever but when they are doing the Donkey work it takes it toll on the boys.

    I've run a twin Wolf Lord list a number of times now and I've gotta say the Thunderbear Lord is the bomb. It was the rest of my list that let me down in Toy Soldier last year but the Lords did very well. The rest of your is looking solid and in my opinion your running the best Grey Hunter set up there is right there.

    I get what your saying about the Rune Priest but I reckon you'll be kicking yourself in the ass when you realize how much you miss that 4+ "No" power. How about just running 1 Thunderwolf Cav guy with s WC and SS, drop the ablative Wolf Guard from the Fangs and take a Rune Priest instead?

    Lastly I noticed you mentioned about one of your packs being sat on an objective and not contributing the the game at all. What about taking that fourth pack in a Las/plas Razorback instead of a Rhino? It can pull off a number of roles then, Plasma support and Long Range Las sniper sat on an objective if needed for those Bore Draw missions.

    Just my thoughts but all in all mate its looking good without any of the above changes,

  6. Venerable Brother26 July 2011 at 09:14

    The addition of Wulfen to the GH packs makes a difference I am finding..just the chance to hit up a rending, or just more attacks..very useful. I think the GH set up is pretty damn strong, a powerfist would be bloody useful though...

    I'm not sure I could fit in a second Lord at this points level without massively reducing the ability of the GH packs to perform, cause you'd need to lose bodies..

    Fancy sharing the twinLord list at 1750?

    I have thought long and hard about the objective sitters and for Bore Draw..I just depsise having to sit back with any grey hunters, especialy as it'd be 150 points (5 GH, plasmaback) sitting there and doing arse all...the plasma support is nice, as is the long range shot...but I have that from ML's...

    Plus its the overall thing that bothers me the most...its 150 not contributing to the overall, in your face, efforts from the rest of the boys.

    Could just whack one in place of the TWC? Have the lord run on his own?

    Drop the scouts and attached WG for a TWC bodyguard for the lord...all the threats on the table and having an objective sitter?

    Defo no room for a Priest there man!!


  7. Its a tough one about that scoring unit it is something that bugs me constantly. Here is the last Twin lord list I ran, funnily enough it did not contain a Rune Priest, fancy that lol.

    Wolf Lord, Thunderwolf Mount, Runic Armour, Saga of the Bear, Thunderhammer, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace

    Wold Lord, Thunderwolf Mount, Runic Armour, Saga of the Warrior Born, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Wolf Tooth Necklace

    3 Wolf Guard
    3 Combi Meltas
    3 Powerfist

    Lone Wolf, Terminator Armour, Chainfist, Storm Shield

    Lone Wolf, Terminator Armour, Chainfist, Storm Shield

    7 Grey Hunters
    Wolf Banner

    7 Grey Hunters
    Wolf Banner

    7 Grey Hunters
    Wolf Banner

    8 Fenrisian Wolves

    5 Long Fangs
    4 x Missile Launchers

    5 Long Fangs
    4 x Missile Launchers

    5 Long Fangs
    4 x Missile Launchers

    Its an in your face list with no objective camping unit. The Fenrisian Wolves are a liability so I'd probably get rid of them in exchange for some Wargear wolves and then stick the few extra points somewhere else and obviously the Lone Wolves are down to personal preference.

    I did a battle report here using the list

    The list did alright to say that I was playing probably one of the best Blood Angels players in the country at the minute.

  8. Venerable Brother26 July 2011 at 13:27

    Coo, thanks Brad. Its light on troops for my taste, but then I guess it'd have to be to fit in all the good stuff! I'll give it a go..

  9. Brad & I have spoken about this before. After personally using both lords & units of Thunder wolves, I prefer lords. I would never mix the two together, such a huge sink of points. No I’m not just on about pPsyker battle squads, but simple torrent of fire which you will see at bigger tourneys (which I will be dragging you all too soon!)
    Hydras, psybacks, Rockets, Assault cannons, Large blasts (manticores), str 10, plasma cannons + lash, str 10 force hammer etc etc. The list goes on. There are many things out there which can deal with one unit of big boys fairly quickly. Don’t fool yourswelf by saying your grey hunters will be left untouched. Look at Dawn of war and how slow your TW’s will be, more so going second.

    1-2 lords attatched to a unit of 10-15 Fenrisian wolves makes the best combo. Lots of ablative wounds, which can conga line behind your advancing rhinos. Here is a list a wrote a while ago:

    Wolf Lord: 260pts
    Thunderwolf, Power fist, Storm shield, Artificer armour, Saga of the bear, Wolf tail talisman.

    Wolf Lord: 255pts
    Thundewolf, Wolf Claw, Storm Shield, Artificer armour, Saga of the warrior born, Wolf tail talisman.

    5 Wolf Guard: 215pts
    3x Power fists & Combi-meltas. 1x Combi-flamer. 1x Terminator with Cyclone.

    7 Grey Hunters: 170pts
    Melta, Banner, MOTW & Rhino.
    7 Grey Hunters: 170pts
    Melta, Banner, MOTW & Rhino.
    7 Grey Hunters: 170pts
    Melta, Banner, MOTW & Rhino.

    5 Grey Hunters: 75pts

    11 Fenrisian Wolves:

    5 Long Fangs: 115pts
    4 Rockets.
    5 Long Fangs: 115pts
    4 Rockets.
    5 Long Fangs: 115pts
    4 Rockets.

    The way it works is more of an on rush army. Grey Hunters in rhinos push up with the Wolf lords who have the dogs lined up behind. The 5 man Grey hunter unit sits back with either a cyclone dude or the combi flamer dude. The combi flamer is just something extra to give you 2 templates on your backfield incase any nasties deep strike/ outflank i.e. stealers, kommandos, DOA marines etc. You still have 14 rockets, 2 wolf tail talismans help to stop things like lash and a good amount of midfield marines.

    Up to you if you like it or not but I think its spot on in terms of what you want from the list.


  10. Venerable Brother26 July 2011 at 16:36

    Looks pretty nice actually Killswitch...thanks...I've been struggling today vs a nasty Coteaz list I'm trying Wolves just can't seem to beat it...too much Thunderlord and his 2 pet wolves and 2 TWC accompanying him were just gunned down in one phase. So I agree, there are plenty of things to kill them...the extra doggies help out I think alot...
    Nice one cheers. I'll try it out..