Monday 2 May 2011

Super Two Part Blog Post: Innovation with Blood Angels, and Blog Wars thoughts.

sorry, no idea who drew this, but its cool, so thanks!


Super Two Part Blog Post Part One - Blood Angels, an army in two half’s

I have a secret.  I actually do play Blood Angels.  Well I used to.  In fact, despite my reputation as a Guard player, BA's were the only army I seriously collected for many years.  When I started playing Warhammer 40k in the early/mid 1990's everything and its dog was painted red and the pansies in blue were only just starting to become popular.  I was only 8, and as a consequence I jumped on the big red bandwagon.  I still have around 4000 points of marines, in various states of painting (most still white, if I'm honest) and given my recent decline in enthusiasm for Guard in 40k I decided to break them out and see what the latest codex could offer. 

My last post was on using Grey Knights as an army of two halves.  I wondered whether a resilient portion of a list could survive turn one and/or two, disrupting the enemy enough for a very hard hitting second wave to deep strike in successfully.  In that post, I touched on the fact that the Blood Angels may also be able to use this strategy, thanks mostly to their 'Descent of Angels' rule.  This rule states that any unit with a jump pack may re-roll reserve dice and may use one less dice when determining deep strike scatter.  This is most often used by armies consisting entirely of jump packs, but these armies are too hit and miss for me.  I want something with a little more firepower, consistency, and staying power. 

I also really wanted to try Vanguard, but I don’t know how effective they really are.  Sure with FNP and FC from a priest (if he comes in near them!!) they will munch through most units, giving them no chance to retaliate but they will bounce off real combat troops.  This will also leave them stranded.  They are also expensive and have only dubious methods of cracking tanks.

Before we go any further I should stipulate that a contributing factor in the following discussion is that the models I actually own are not what might be considered optimal Blood Angels units.  As a consequence, the army list that follows is not what might traditionally be considered competitive.  However, I don't think it is terrible, and with some tweaking, it might work.

Here is the list:

First half - starts on the table
Librarian, Fear of the Darkness, Shield of Sanguinius
Sanguinary Priest
Assault Squad, meltagun, Lasplas Razorback
Tactical Squad, flamer, multimelta, rhino
Tactical Squad, flamer, multimelta, rhino
Devastator Squad, 4 missile launchers
Devastator Squad, 4 missile launchers

second half - reserves

Sanguinary Priest, Jump Pack
Assasult Squad, meltagun, inferno pistol
Assasult Squad, meltagun, inferno pistol
Vanguard Veterans, 2 power weapons (1 free), power fist 
Vanguard Veterans, 2 power weapons (1 free), power fist 

1750 points

Lots of bodies, most of which are scoring, quite a bit of hitting power, and overall ok survivability.  Moreover, it is tactically very flexible.  The army does not have to reserve all, or any of the jump troops, and it can combat squad as the need dictates. 

A few obvious worries:
  • Armour saturation is very low, with only 3 av11 hulls. 
  • 15 kill points is actually quite high!
  • Is it a bit 'battleforcy'?

Incidentally, I tried a slightly less refined version of the list against Bully's Deathwing a week or so back, and while it was obviously a decent list, my own poor play and his increasing skill meant I lost quite badly.  Marines really are not like playing guard. 

I would like to hear your input, regardless of how positive or negative it may be. 

Super Two Part Blog Post Part Two - Thinking outside the box for Blog Wars.

In this second part of today’s post, I’m going to discuss the army I am currently tweaking in preparation for the upcoming Blog Wars tournament at the start of June.  The only restriction on army lists in this 1750 point tournament is that each army must include at least one special character.  Now, initially I thought this sucked, but with a few clarifications for older armies, I think it has the potential to make people think a bit more about their list building.  This is certainly the effect it has had on me.  In fact, i played a game yesterday with my guard and I truly enjoyed it, learning something for the first time in months.  

Which special character did I choose? Well a lot of people might have expected me to go for something like Marbo, who would have minimal impact on building an army.  However, i decided to try out a character i have always found interesting but never truly thought about - Colonel Straken.  

used without permission, but from an amazing French site: http://www.juliencasses.com/2011/01/col-straken/ Thanks!


I designed a 1750 list about an hour before the game, and i must stress that I have done no research on what the accepted wisdom is for using this guy in a list.  I wanted this to be my own take, and take into account my own play-style. 

I began with Straken himself, in a Command squad of course. I kept the upgrades minimal.  A medic and two bodyguards to make sure everyone (read, Straken) survives as long as possible to do as much damage as possible. I also took a banner, you will see why in a minute.  I also gave him a chimera.

I then plumbed for two medium infantry blobs of 30 men each (plus a commissar).  In each of these I took four power weapons (one on each sergeant plus one on the commissar) and two meltaguns and two auctocannons. when combined with Straken’s furious charge and counter attack bubble (12") and his order bubble (also 12", and he has all orders) these squads become extremely nasty.  If we mathhammer it, you will see what I mean.  If one squad gets charged and gets off its counter attack (hence the banner to make sure) it will have 72 attacks, of which 16 are power weapons.  If it charges those will all be at S4 and I4.  In addition, it is stubborn and re-rolls failed checks due to the banner and the commissar.  It can also put out a prodigious amount of lasgun fire thanks to 'first rank fire, second rank fire' and can move pretty fast thanks to 'move, move, move'. Finally, both blobs are scoring, and cannot really be ignored, because in five turns, they will be in your face. 

Clearly, both these platoons need command squads, so i took my usual one with four flamers and a chimera.  This unit has proved itself time and again, and is still consistently underestimated.  The second one, armed yesterday with 3 grenade launchers, is intended only to hold objectives.  I don’t really know what else to do with this unit, and as it happened, it cost me a win yesterday because it ran from the objective on the final turn, thereby utterly failing to fulfil its one purpose.  

To form a more mobile and hard hitting section, i took two squads of melta vets in chimeras.  We all know what these do in a normal list, but their job here turned out to be slightly different.  I moved them up the flanks and used them as threat suffusion.  By this I mean I gave Bully too many high priority targets to shoot at.  In an army with lots of armour they would of course revert to their usual role.

Finally, I took my usual fast attack and heavy support sections.  Two vendettas and three hydras.  I have found this setup to be extremely effective and point’s efficient and yesterday proved no exception. 

So to summarise, the list is:

Company Command Squad - Colonel Straken, Medic, 2 Bodyguard, Flappy Banner, Chimera

Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns, Chimera
Veteran Squad - 3 Meltaguns, Chimera

Platoon Command Squad - 4 Flamers, Chimera
Infantry Squad - Commissar (power sword), Sergeant (power sword)
Infantry Squad - Sergeant (power sword), Meltagun, Autocannon
Infantry Squad - Sergeant (power sword), Meltagun, Autocannon

Platoon Command Squad - 3 Grenade Launchers
Infantry Squad - Commissar (power sword), Sergeant (power sword)
Infantry Squad - Sergeant (power sword), Meltagun, Autocannon
Infantry Squad - Sergeant (power sword), Meltagun, Autocannon

Vendetta Gunship
Vendetta Gunship

Hydra Flak Tank
Hydra Flak Tank
Hydra Flak Tank
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1750 points

Some general thoughts on this army: 
  • It holds midfield really well.  I was shocked at this.  I won turn one, and thought, sod it, let’s go.  I moved both squads forward for a few turns, including a run move, and I was quickly in a dominating board position, even forcing Bully to move back (with deathwing!!) or risk my charge.
  • It forces hard target priority decisions.  If you shoot the blobs, you won’t reduce their effectiveness too much, but if you don’t, they will eat your face.
  • It will suffer to an army such as GK's, who will torrent the shit out of it.  
  • Mobility isn’t as much of an issue as it may appear.
  • The blobs really are dangerous in combat.  They even smacked down deathwing (with a little luck on my part, but it did show the potential for them).
I will be refining and play testing this list over the next few weeks, but i would really like to hear what anyone who has played with or against Straken has to say on this subject.  

Thanks for reading
Atreides

11 comments:

  1. Cheers for posting this up. It's exactly the sort of thing I wanted to inspire with the SC rule for Blog Wars. I'm impressed you resisted Mr. Glasscannon (Marbo) but I suspect the other guard players won't!

    Since Blog Wars isn't intended to be a competitive tournament I wanted people to try new things and use models they haven't dug out in a while. I'm hoping to get a post up about my list soon.

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  2. I really like the Straken list. You may refine it as see's fit - but in honesty I didn't see any glaring gaps off the bat.

    Really don't see them short in combat either. I'll prob end up covering a bit of the game in my post on weds - so I won't go much into the specific's - needless to say, even at half strength - its a potent combat unit - I can see what people like MVB mean with that.

    But back onto the BA's - I think its a solid concept the 3xAV11 is an issue - certainly in KP's as that would be the first thing to be targeted - but what I like is the entire list works in quite a good synergy. I have to say though I do like the combo of devs + jumpers + van guard - I know this is moving further and further from this list - but it does keep with the "on the table + reserve punch". Something like the 2 (or even 3 dev teams) turn the tacticals and lasplas into normal jumpers - and then have that same reserve force. Thats a lot of FNP marines on the table moving up - with some good can openning from the devs for the van guard - then the melta droppers to help out on the next turn.

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  3. @FtF - my list is DW - but still got a special in there, but I myself am trying something different. I might go crazy by Blog Wars - depending on what I can get painted in the next month!

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  4. Straken is cool. Blob squads with commisars have become recently popular for good reason. If that command squad with grenade launchers(i dislike grenade launchers) isn't pulling its weight try giving it another power weapon/flamers and a medipack and adding it to the blob for FNP goodness, that should stop the blobs one real problem, high numbers of low strength wounds.

    For the BA's alot of people have had similar thoughts about the just jumpers list, the general consensus seems to be to run 3 dev squads to pop armour and then the rest jumpers. Using Vanguard vets with Storm shields and power fists(making them a bit like mobile termies)and Dante(as he doesn't scatter) with a squad of honor guard or sang guard(troops due to dante) who can then melta/inf pistol stuff up and use Dante's no scatter to accuarately drop an attached priest or honor guards' novitiate within range of your vanguard and other elements for more reliable FNP. I'd be interested to see how your list stands up as it looks to me like its too little AV11 to stand up unless theres lots of line of sight blocking terrain. Also are your assault squads 10 men? I've found double melta to work better than the inferno pistol in these squads as your paying more for a less useful weapon.

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  5. Thanks for the BA advice, i will get round to testing some of it at some point soon :)

    as for the Guard, sadly, platoon command squads cannot join infantry squads. only infantry squads can join up. this is the issue i am having. the command squad is a 30 point unit, and it scores, so in many ways it is perfect for sitting at the back, possibly out of LOS, and camping an objective. however, it isnt actually that reliable at doing so, with Ld8 and only 5 wounds.

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  6. All the assault squads are 5 man, VV are 5 man, tacticals obviously 10 man.

    I actually don't think the tactical squad are the worst thing in the world, having them sat in the rear gives a solid base to the list - but I am thinking that neither of the rhino's or lasplas is actually needed. The tactical squad can act how some people use the cheap scouts as rear field scoring for their jumpers, and with a sang priest around - they are damn durable - then throw in another 15/20 FNP marines running up the table (to be supported by 20 coming in from reserves) could be strong.

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  7. Andy - is there no way to beef up that command and make them a bit more durable? More bodies / armour (tank, even cammo cloaks or something?)

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  8. they have no upgrade options to increase survivability, no option for more men, and not enough points for a chimera, so all in all no :)

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  9. Interesting, they are hardly a weakness in the list really, as you say objective sitter (could be behind los etc anyway), KP just reserve them etc ... if it gives you access to other juicy bits.

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  10. sorry didnt post earlier, did not see this go up yesterday...too busy playing...got a whopping 4 games in yesterday!! hopefully get 2 more in tonight...blog wars testing going well!!

    Dont like the BA. Similar sort of number of bodies to my Wolves builds...around 60-something...which I alsways think is an insane amount of marines...and then most of them die.

    But you have FnP which increases the survivability immensely. So on that score I have no issue...

    its just that the whole 1/2 and 1/2 thing. I dont think the first half is in an anyway tough enough...

    You know the low armour saturation is against you, as is the range threats.. The MM's wont fire turn 1 (range and moving fast to get into midfield, 'bunker' position), if its DoW then the Devs wont either as they'll have to get into position (completely discounting Night Fighting...just the movement is enough!)...

    If you are going first then thats great as you only weather 1 turn of return firepower, but if going second your 'on-table' half army has to sustain itself against 2 full turns of firepower... just think of your own IG army...anything I build (lol...the arrogance), any semi-optmised build will pound you for 2 full turns before the 4 other threats come in.

    the FnP means the marines will be around, most definitely for the first few turns (1-3), but I think will become incredibly low on numbers and therefore incredibly low on offensive output later in the game (4-7)

    I can assure you, without a shadow of doubt, that it is not that hard for an army to focus on a small number of transports and some devastators and reduce them to scrap. Essentially that is my Wolves (or anyone's wolves really lol...) - Rhino's and Fangs...and they are damn easy to remove if you have no other targets and are playing against a well built army... Then you spend the rest of the game killing marines...

    I am not saying it can't work....and I understand 100% the constraints under which it is being built... I just don't like it.. How about a massive group of FnP terminators (assault)? Deploy aggressively and march up field, drawing fire like it is no-one's business? They would be there still... Forget small arms fire, and missiles (2+ armour), autocannons (2+ armour and Fnp)...lascannons? 3++, ordnance............? fuck.

    Love the IG though :)

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  11. Well I can tell you how resilient FNP terminators are - I just wish I had a bubble rather than 1 dude lol.

    I don't think the army in two halves is a bad idea at all, and I think the BA codex can accommodate it perfectly well - but I'd actually rethink the base - strip out the armour - and run all foot squads of marines (should comfortably get at least 25 FNP marines, couple of priests, couple of dev squads and a libby to dish out 5++'s when theres no cover). Throw in the van guard x2 for the punch from reserve (your second half) and maybe a couple of combat squads if points allow (they should) which have the option of deploying on or off the table. If there are points to still go around, a couple of basic scout squads (cloaks if possible) as rear field objective sitters (and can create cover for the devs if needed - all bolstered by FNP ...). It was a route I was looking at for a potential "alternate" list for myself.

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