Wednesday, 18 May 2011

Last hurrah for Deathwing at Blog Wars?

So - a couple of topics I want to discuss, first off, as the title suggests is the impending Blog Wars, which I have to say is creeping up rather fast on us, and second is my next/new project which I am about to get under way. Not really going to cover any hobby side of things today - I'll hopefully get a post up this weekend with some sponge/marbling technique guides (if not it might have to wait until after Blog Wars).

So onto blog wars - we've got this in little over two weeks - and I am still in a bit of a "no-mans land" over this. I decided quite some time ago I'd defiantly be taking my Deathwing to the event (if you hadn't guessed that from above already), it fits with the spirit of the day, and definitely not a case of WAAC painted plastic grey toys of doom. It really comes down to what list to take. With time fast running out, and really not being able to get nearly as many games in recently as I'd have hoped (since BWL I think I've played 5 or 6 times, only 1 of which wasn't with Deathwing).

In terms of it being the last hurrah - I've enjoyed the Deathwing - really have, and am really glad I have this army now fully painted (well for 1500, soon to be 1750) in the case ready to rock. But it was always a stop gap. The last Brighton Warlords coincided with the Grey Knights release - which was going to be the army I did next (and had been for a long time)  - which meant I had to make a choice for BWL - play the Mech BA that I had become a bit disheartened with, or do a pet project that I had fancied for a long time. I opt;d with the Deathwing pet project, shelving the Blood Angels, but when the GK codex came out it was a bit of a non-starter for me initially. But more on that later, onto the Deathwing for Blog Wars!

So lets have a quick refresher of the list's. 

List One - "The Original" 

Belial - Lightning Claws
5xTerminator Squads - TH/SSx4  - CML - LC's (1xUpgrade to Apoc + Banner)
2xRavenwing Squads - MGx2 Attack Bike w/ MMx1 Melta Bombs

Model Situation: At a min it requires me to paint one squad - I am currently making/minorly converting - they will be the "new command squad" - no magnets as I am posing the models slightly. Ideally I'd like to re-do as many of the arms on the units as possible. I do need to magnetise up some LC's (only 3 pairs) - but this is very simple!

The Bikers - Fearless Fast Scouting Outflanking Melta!

List Two - "The Hybrid"

Belial - Lightning Claws
4xTerminator Squads - TH/SSx4  - CML - LC's (1xUpgrade to Apoc)
3xDreadnoughts (3x TL-AC, 1xDCCW/HF 1xDCCW/SB 1xMissile Launcher)
3xPredators (3xAC 2xHB's)

Model Situation - I have the terminators painted, so its just the same as above - touch ups wanted but not required. I "sort of" have to paint most of the tanks - the dreads not so much - just details. Its not a huge amount of work but it is basically 6 vehicles in 2 weekends.

RAWR! Actually my "converted" Furioso for my crazy blood angels list - but obviously arms are interchangable.

List Three - "Got Mono?"

Belial - Lightning Claws
6xTerminator Squads - TH/SSx4  - CML - LC's (1xUpgrade to Apoc)

Model Situation - 4 of the squads are done as above, so the command squad is in the process of being remade - and then another squad would be needed to made/painted. Ezekiel is at the stage below - I am painting him as a "reward for doing nothing" really.

Absolutely love this model. Something about it is really striking.
From the back. Don't know if you can see - but thats actually the old school back pack. I'll probably order a new version of this and paint it differently - just an awesome model hands down (maybe a power weapon toting Inquisitor?)

What to Choose?

Logically speaking, list one is the most obvious, simplest and probably in the long run best option to take. Obviously I have concerns over the list - otherwise I'd not have started to explore other routes, but in my exploration it did make me aware of the reliability of melta. Simply said, I have by far and away the most experience with this list, and even though it has its faults - I am aware of them (to a decent extent) and hopefully I can roll with the blows so to speak.

The hybrid list - I've had a couple of games with this - and I do really like the list - however, I really think this works best at 2K - something the UK doesn't really play (I think I've been asked for like two 2K games in nearly a year). The 4 squads - while hard to shift - aren't hard to shift at the same time - and being left with two squads and shaken tanks late game is tricky - those terminators start having to perform multiple roles, not to mention, sometimes, needing to be in more than one place at a time. 5xSquads really does relieve the pressure on the list - but there is no feasible way to get the saturation in and had 5 squads.

The final list - I have a real soft spot for. It redefines mono build, and received its doctorate in copy and paste last week from the University of Ctrl+P. Opponent eye brow raising aside, I do think it could be quite a fun list to play with - it has issues - a sort of mix of the problems of list one (hordes, hybrid mech lists) and list two (no melta) but it corrects one problem - LD10 hood! Part of me has a desire to get Ezkiel on the table as well - fantastic model, and not so horrific rules it has to be said (but 1 power a turn in a 3 power spell book - man the Dark Angels suck at that!).

At this moment in time - I am leaning towards list one - it makes the most sense - both in terms of play and work load. With this being potentially the last hurrah of the Deathwing proper (I.E my primary army / tourney Army) - it gives me a chance to do all the touch ups and get a 1750 army in the box and ready to jump out at any time - while not distracting myself with other projects - if I start to do bits of mech I'll get side tracked because we begin to cross over interests into my new project ....

Grey Knights ...

So yes, finally I've gotten over what seemed to be new codex phobia. I am not sure what quite happened, but my initial thoughts on the codex have recently changed. I managed to get a game in the other day vs Atreides, and despite what initially was frustrating, but after a few minutes was quite hilarious ending to the game, I just fell in love with the codex.

Venerable gave me a lot of inspiration - and advice - on the list I used, and what I am looking to use moving forward. I doubt I'll get it painted (or even try) before Brighton Warlords, so that really might be the last hurrah for the deathwing - though I might just take the hit on the painting points for the sake of experience.

Anyway - this is what I originally played versus Atreides (there or there abouts)

Librarian - Warp / Shroud / Sanctuary - Skull
OMI - PsyCannon - TDA w/ DH - Skullx3

10xGKSS - PsyBolts - PsyCan x2 DH - Rhino
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts

5xPaladins - DH, Halbx3, Sword, Psycannon x2

Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts
Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts
Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts
 I had contemplated a couple of squads of 8 man purifiers in rhinos instead of the Paladins - but wanted to try this first. I was sold! The Inquisitor is amazing and I loved the relentless psycannons marching forward. Librarians are just plain obnoxious.

List performed well - we had a great game between myself and Andy - it ended a draw - I stole the iniative from him, and he ended the game on T5 with 4 models left on the table - its the way it goes and I still smirk at it thinking of it now - it actually taught me a couple of valuable lessons - which is great.

Paladins did a good job - the psycannon fire did some great damage - I really do like this and want to keep the triple relentless psycannons in there some where. Once they got stuck in combat it took them a couple of turns to kill about 15 guys to the man (or 2 assault phases) - I could/should have tried to get them stuck in earlier. I was pleased with the performance - I was helped by stealing, but in fairness, that was my first one (honestly) - and it balanced out with the "early" end.

However I got to thinking about tweaks. The Paladins are nice - double psycannons are the bomb, WS5 is just awesome - defiantly for a 5 man unit they boss terminators - and don't really cost the list "that much" versus say a 5 man squad of troop terms - however, it got me thinking - what about 10 man squad of terminators - then I am worried about melta/lascannons - but not _as_ worried. I came up with something like this:

Libby - Warp/Shroud/Sanct
OMI - PsyC / DH / TDA / 3xSkulls

10xTerminators - 2xPsyC 6xHalberds 2xSwords 2xDH
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts
5xGKSS - PsyCan - Razor w/ Psybolts

Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts
Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts
Dreadnought - TLACx2 Psybolts

So high strength fire power into the terms is "not as effective" - a single lascannon / melta gun on a 5+ invul is no longer a huge risk (sucks to lose 1, but not as bad as insta kill - as ven says - a little part of you will die inside) - still have the two cannons - which is huge, and while they are WS4 - in these numbers they should hit just as often - if not more (certainly on the charge) - though taking a wound is more detrimental to the unit as a whole. Plus moving these guys foward into the midfield is not just a threat in "scary unit" terms - but also present those scoring opportunities. Not to mention its just that bit more storm bolter fire power!

These are just a couple of the lists I'll be trying out post Blog Wars - I'll be looking at Crowe and more MSU (no terminators/libby) based lists post Brighton Warlords - I might even venture into the crazy world of henchmen (really liking the idea of DeathCult assassins as a counter attack unit).

Anyway that's enough out of me - next post up will be progress on my terminators - including some of the touch ups (I've added on some more detail - including glowing eyes) - and hopefully a finished squad - I am deciding whether to factory line them or do each model (at least the armour) individually for "better" blends (also stops me rushing the layers). More to come.


  1. That's a long post... maybe I'll come back tomorrow.

    A quick look at the list, I'd be happy to take on the foot DA lists... GK wouldn't be so bad, but not as nice.

  2. Yeah that post started to get longer and longer lol. Meant to have it up a couple of hours ago as well but ... got side tracked (making bases for my terminators, PT and my front bike tire exploding on me on the way home :/)

  3. For the DA I like the list with Dreads, however you should use the significantly cheaper venerable upgarde the DA have.

    Landspeeders are also very nice in the DA lists; landspeeders with typhoon missiles and a multi-melta is 75 pts (a quarter less than what it would be in the marine codex).

    Just like to say I really like the marble effect on your models.


  4. Cheers - marble effect is pretty easy as well - tutorial on that soon enough.

    Venerable is a option for the list. and easy drop a Pred with no sponson and snag the upgrade - probably gives similar durability .

    Speeders have issues - cheapness aside - they are paper air planes and do not really fit with durability of the list. If they could deepstrike I'd be more tempted but as they stand they get downed by little more than a strong breeze. They did ok for me in early games - but f really. ound bikers to be more effective so ran them instead. - if these were my first games with DA rather than last I'd be more intent on trying to male them fit. As I say it's the final few games :D Actually truth be told I do fancy using Speeders again - just not at blog
    Wars hehe.

  5. List 1 looks best to me, although the Hybrid one I quite like, the dreads I'd switch to Typhoons though tbh. Maybe 2,2,1 for the same points, but another 10 S8 flying down range to join your existing 8 giving 18 S8 and 6 S7 at extreme range...use the paper planes speed to their advantage, use thier movement to keep out of range, then launch a crippling salvo forwards.. return fire should be seriously reduced and frankly...there are more important targets..

  6. Good thoughts guys -

    More on the venerables - really think that is viable - and quite simply drop that 70 point autocannon pred and gain 3xven dreads (could upgrade then another to missile launcher as well). The vens generally get targeted before the preds unless some one gets a line onto side armou- but due to their static nature generally the are sat in a corner each offering front unless someone wants to force themselves out to an extremity (or I do go for the bubble wrap option of sitting the dreads behind them and terms in front of the preds).

    Over the speeders - my original hybrid list actually did feature them - and I really liked the list (10xtacticals 3xspeeders 2xpreds) and I still think thats a very solid list - with options to drop the tacticals for either another pred or even Samael (AV14 speeder!! Imagine that cock blocking the midfield). But like I said in the other post I didnt have the models with me to make that list - and tried the trip dread and quite liked it - and in reality dont fancy picking up another speeder or two - magnetising all 3 and then painting them (oh and do all this in 1 weekend!) and then never use them again!! Well thats a lie - but I'd rather do them at my own leisure! Plus the games I ran with them were about 3 months ago so am severely out of practice with protecting them (believe me, they get targeted T1 every single game if they can, once they got a shot off the generally went down quick).

    That said I'll probably have a change of heart next week and run them lol.

    If I still play DW for Brighton Warlords I might rock them for that - I'll have a month to get them ready then

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  8. There's just a guy called Justin who hasn't got a ticket yet. The rest of the SoS guys have though :)

  9. Hey alex,
    Justin is now being deployed at short notice to Korea so will now not be joining us..sorry dude, assumed he had let you know himself..

  10. I got to thinking about tweaks. The Paladins are nice - double psycannons are the bomb, WS5 is just awesome - defiantly for a 5 man unit they boss terminators - and don't really cost the list "that much" versus say a 5 man squad of troop terms - however, it got me thinking - what about 10 man squad of terminators -