Monday, 7 March 2011

Grey Knights - is 'counts as' acceptable?

Stomp... (more on this tomorrow)
Hi everyone,

Due to starting a new job and feeling a little bit '40ked out', its been a while since I posted.  However, this is about to change, since this weekend i made some decisions.

1) Its time to move on:  I love my Imperial Guard.  I have played little else for around 6 or 7 years and i have loved every second of it.  However, i feel i have reached a point where most possibilities have been reached.  I an field virtually every unit in the codex, and feel i have largely mastered the use of each. 

2) I want to start 'really' scratch building things.  And by things i mean Robots or 'mechs'.  By this i mean taking plasticard tubes, sheets, rods etc and literally building something from nothing.  I will still use parts from my bits box, but most of each build will now consist of plasticard.

3) I am going to start a Grey Knights force.  This is what this post is really about.  It will enable me to build robots to represent Dreadknights, and lots of cool vehicles to represent rhinos, chimeras, landraiders etc. 

The Dilemma

I really hate Grey Knights.  Seriously, I cant stand them.  Not entirely sure why, but it has something to do with them being so irritatingly heroic and powerful.  I have always preferred the underdog.  Regardless of the reason, I will not be using a single Grey Knights model in the army.

This leaves me with a number of options.

a) Go all henchmen.  I don't really want to do this since it will probably be a bit too much like playing guard.  Plus, we have no sure idea if it is possible yet.

b) Build the 'Grey Knights' themselves as robots.  I don't really want to do this either, as it is simply too much work.  I want to be able to play this army some time this century.  Were I still unemployed i may consider it, but as things stand.... no way :)

c) Use normal marines to represent Grey Knights, and build robots to represent Terminators, Dreadknights, Dreadnoughts, Servitors (and some other henchmen), and some Characters.  The issue here is using normal marines, but I have a plan!

Enter the Desert Lions.  Some of you (particularly the old ones ;) will have heard of this chapter.  As far as I know they were only mentioned once:

"Legio cohorts are occasionally attached to campaigning Marine Chapters, such as during Operation Carthage (the Second Pacification of Isstvan V). When the Desert Lions Chapter took the planet's defence forts they were preceded by a complete Legio Cohort of Robots. The Robots had been programmed to advance in an apparently mindless fashion, and proved easy targets for the defenders. However, the Desert Lions used the opportunity to map out the defenders' fire-plans and blind spots. In the Lions' ensuing assault only seven Marines were lost.

All the surviving Robots were inducted into the Chapter as honorary members as a mark of respect."

And there it is.  A space marine chapter that uses robots.  Win.  Plus, I've always wanted to do a desert scheme.

My question is, is this acceptable?  Clearly Grey Knights have some pretty special abilities and gear, and this would have to be represented.  There is no way I could use normal marines with bolters, for example.  But I could convert marines to have swords and storm bolters easily, my real issue is from a fluff perspective.  I am not usually one to be bothered by this sort of thing, but in this case, I just don't know.  How do i justify my entire force having preferred enemy: deamons for example?  what about the psychic powers?

What do you guys think?


  1. I've heard that robots hate daemons. Almost as much as they hate pirates and ninjas. So there's your preferred enemy.

    As for psychic powers, I'm not sure what the Grey Knights get, but couldn't you use some kind of High Technology reason for the abilities, like force-fields and mind rays?

    Personally, I think "counts-as" armies are great, especially if a bit of creativity is used in building it.

  2. I like the idea but not sure how well it would work with the special rules.

    Have you thought about the Exorcists? They are pretty much grey knights but in there own little chapter, perhaps with an attached Mechanicus force? Could work maybe? I eagerly anticipate this army though it should be epic!!

  3. Is this acceptable?

    Of course it is. You're using legal rules from GW and appropriately sized models. Anyone who would say otherwise should get their head out of their ass.

  4. Count-as is PERFECTLY acceptable.

    If anybody tells you otherwise, please tell me their address and I'll quite happily make a trip to kick them in the nuts.

    I know of some particularly nice desert marines should you want some ideas/links.

  5. oh... and if it's a woman, I'd have to have a think, but I'd probably come round to kicking them in the 'bits' too.

    We don't like sexism here after all.

  6. I see zero issue with this.

    Is there an army that could "better represent it" - maybe a master of the forge list with kit based dreads and what not - but that's not nearly as fun as what the GK's will be able to offer now is it. But seriously, the end of the day, its your theme and your trying to manipulate that theme through a vision of a rule book that has stimulated/inspired you to do this (aka Dreadnights) - also I love the idea of the various different types of terminators being mini robot's going around the board - the Power Armoured Grey Knights being sort of their ushers.

    And yes I do remember that Chapter - I wonder if I have any old books lying around on the subject.

    The only prob Andy, is we will have ALOT of GK on GK action going on in the not to distant future! Though unlike you Grey Knights are probably my 2nd favourite thing about GW - and I am sure I'll instantly fall in love with the models - and will be spending a little bit more than 5 weeks getting them done ;P

  7. @ Stargazer, i had thought of that, but i hate the colour scheme, sadly.

    @ Bro-lo, i'd love those links, ideas are never a bad, erm, idea... :P

    @ everyone else, thanks! i am aware most people wouldnt have an issue with it as such, but i do like to justify my own use of rules, thats all. :)

  8. You can always call specific items artifacts from the Dark Age of Technology, or things from previously unknown STC designs dicovered during one of your campaigns.

    I'll be interested to see your ideas come to life, as I've always been an avid converter, but more kitbashing than scratchbuilding, so I figure I can pick up some tips & tricks along the way

  9. Hmm... seems like most of the photos are dead.

    Have a search for Starks333 and desert scorpions. He uses a salting technique so make some incredible desert marines. I think the link on Bolter and Chainsword still has some pics of the results. They're incredible minis.

  10. ahhh... searching starks333 desert scorpions in google images does the trick ;)

  11. sadly i can only see small versions of the pics, but they do look really cool! shame they apear to have been taken down.