Thursday, 24 February 2011

UKGT: Killswitch's Ideas

Posted by Killswitch Labels: , , , ,

So we have Mr Venerable talking about wolves for the UKGT, so what do I use?

Well I could keep it under wraps, but seeing as its such a big tourney, I care little for whether someone knows what I’m taking or not. The chances of playing me are rather slim, and if someone really wants to build their list to beat mine, go for it :P!

Anyways, onto the selection? Well my Imperial Guard army is completely painted, and My marine chapter is undercoated and not fully built. Well since we are having an SoS outing, I would feel a bit silly taking the same codex as Ven. He hasn’t decided yet by the looks of things, so Im going to write out a few lists and pick one out.
My first choice is Guard as it means I wont have to paint up anything. Here is what I have in mind:



CCS: 195pts
4 Plasma guns, Astropath, Chimera.

5 Storm Troopers: 160pts
2 Meltaguns & Chimera.

5 Storm Troopers: 160pts
2 Meltaguns & Chimera.

Veteran Squad: 165pts
3 Meltaguns, Autocannon. and Chimera (Ed)

Veteran Squad: 165pts
3 Meltaguns, Autocannon. and Chimera (Ed)

Veteran Squad: 165pts
3 Meltaguns, Autocannon. and Chimera (Ed)

Vendetta: 140pts
Heavy bolters.
Vendetta: 140pts
Heavy bolters.

2 Hydras: 150pts
2 Hydras: 150pts

Manticore: 160pts

So I have lost a psyker battle squad and a Vendetta from my previous list. What I tend to notice is my Vendettas drop fairly early, so most of my firepower tend to derive elsewhere. I noticed the lack of pie plates in recent tourneys, and due to the mass amounts of LOS blocking terrain at maelstrom, the need for a Manticore is more needed than ever. Outflanking melta support to perform my personal role of “wolf scouts” is always nice, backed up by the Astropath for the re roll choice.

I look at this list and get rather nervous due to the lack of the Psyker battle squad. I have always found a use for it 75% of the time, the other 25% being against fully mech or fearless armies. Id like to fit them in but dropping anything is a little too risky in terms of reducing my volume of firepower or reliability. I would love to try out the storm trooper idea before I fully commit as I am at this point of time, unsure of their effectiveness. I like the fact that they can reach out and perform a flank attack role, rather than the usual static Guard gunline.

Next is my Blood angel "List 2" Here which I call The Mephiston Brigade lol (think he means List 1 as that has both flamerbacks and Mephie in? Ed). I really like this list, but what worries me is the lack of models. I don’t think I will have time to convert that many twin-linked heavy flamer backs, so perhaps Venerable could help me out with this if I decide to take this root? *puppy eyes* lol.
Space wolves is my final option. Fairly Hybrid list, but something which I have plenty of experience with:

Rune Priest: 100pts
Living Lightning, Jaws.

Rifleman: 125pts
Rifleman: 125pts

4 wolf Guard: 172pts
Power fists & Combi-meltas.

5 Grey Hunters: 155pts
Meltagun, Las/plas Razorback.

5 Grey Hunters: 125pts
Meltagun, Banner & Rhino.
5 Grey Hunters: 125pts
Meltagun, Banner & Rhino.
5 Grey Hunters: 125pts
Meltagun, Banner & Rhino.
5 Grey Hunters: 125pts
Meltagun, Banner & Rhino.

Thunder Wolf: 70pts
Wolf Claw
Thunder Wolf: 70pts
Wolf Claw

6 Long Fangs: 215pts
5 Rockets, las/plas Razorback.
6 Long Fangs: 215pts
5 Rockets, las/plas Razorback.

Total: 1747pts

So peeps, have at it. What should I use, and what changes should I make? If any..

Killswitch

19 comments:

  1. Venerable Brother24 February 2011 at 15:40

    I think it should be an SoS rule whenever we have multiple boys out at tournies....no same armies! lol. Make for dull batreps.

    I like all three lists mate. The IG is a tough one and I think the Manticore is a great shout.

    The storm troopers did Atreides proud at X Legion and I know he stands by that inclusion.. another good idea and the combination of astropath will really help get the most from them.

    I like the wolf list too, i take it the empty las plas are used for fire support, but also to pick up any boys that get forcibly demeched! maintain mobility?

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  2. Killswitch24 February 2011 at 15:42

    Yep you got it, also provide cover for the Dreads who may sit back when needed :)

    Agreed on bat reps, would suck a bit lol. I think although 6 Hydras work, there have been times when I have needed the Manticore more than ever. I wish I could just fit 6 Hydras and a manticore but alas I can't lol!

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  3. Bradimus Prime24 February 2011 at 16:01

    I've nver been sold on the transports for Long Fangs, I know people like them to add various things to the list but for 150 pts I always end up taking another Long Fang pack.

    I'm loving the Storm Trooper Idea btw, told my mate about the idea and he has instantly dug out his Kasrkins :/

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  4. Killswitch24 February 2011 at 16:21

    Well on Dawn of war the Transports are great for getting them into position, to provide more armour saturation, more shots & most importantly, mobile cover

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  5. Unknown24 February 2011 at 17:07

    Yep, I swear by my Razorbacks for the exact same reason.

    Plus, I need all the las and plas I can get my grubby mits on!

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  6. Atreides24 February 2011 at 17:10

    i was very close to including a manticore in my own list. in the end i didn't, mainly because i like to have more troops, and in the end that worked out for me in most of my games (the throwaway flamer unit was especially effective). also great to see autocannons on the vet squads.

    i would urge you to consider a demo charge on at least one squad if you can find the points though. seriously, they scare the crap out of people, and in three separate games last weekend they forced my opponents into certain moves which were greatly to my benefit (esp deep strike armies, who chose to run rather than shoot).

    i tried the astropath and found i never needed him, i always had what i needed on the table.

    cant really comment on the other lists i'm afraid! :)

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  7. Bradimus Prime24 February 2011 at 17:23

    Demo vets with Flamers are awesome, the potential alpha strike with Meltabombs is scary as hell as well as being able to blast units apart with that demo charge.

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  8. Anonymous24 February 2011 at 18:23

    No wolf scouts?

    3 units of LF > 2 big units. Find the points for them.

    The IG list is a bit meh. I don't get the melta + autocannons. They seem confused to me. And please don't say duality.

    Rather than Storm Troopers, why not take IST squads, save points and have more scoring units.

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  9. Killswitch24 February 2011 at 21:18

    3 units - more killpoints. Fire controll still means i can shoot 4 targets.

    No wolfscouts cus dnt have the models.Not cumpolsory for this tourney as I will be facing some low kp count hard armies and wolf scouts are another one of those fairly easy kps. Never rly relied on em. They are nice to have bt i like the constant support from the rifleman and are great for holding up units.

    Autocannons are 10pts, thats very cheap and gives my vets something to do whilst sitting back. 6 extra str 7 shots at bs 4, cnt complain. What do you suggest for 30pts instead?Whats meh about it? Please expand. What would you suggest instead o.O?

    Cant take allies, says in the rulespack :)

    Cheers.

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  10. Anonymous24 February 2011 at 22:04

    I think the autocannons in the Vets add to cost and take away from focus. Let your unit and transport provide the duality rather than the unit alone. The storm troopers are a whole load of meh... and expensive to boot. 165 points for meltaguns on insta-poof troops in chimeras - no thanks.

    There is also no combat prowess, no wrap and 13 vehicles at this level is not huge for IG. No psyker battle squads.

    I just think it needs a bit of re-working. Too many melta units and not enough other stuff IMO.

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  11. Bully24 February 2011 at 22:43

    I think I'd like to see the BA army taken, that would be quite interesting - but if modeling is an issue, thats not a pressure you want to be adding to the mix.

    I personally really like both lists. I've played vs Andys ST list a good few times now, and they've only ever been "bad" in 1 game, and that was tonight when I know he'd not have taken them at 1500 points really. Again I do like the PBS - it stole a win from out under my nose in the final turn vs me, which was quite cool to see. Manticore is a good addition - it offers that different threat outside of just plain "dakka". Have to agree with Atriedes, find a way to get the demo charges in - its another threat that has to be thought about and will make people act differently (or die!).

    The wolves list is v.close to the list I was going to run myself. I think the only difference was that I didnt take banners, but instead had a 2nd GH/LasPlas. Loving the riflemen in this list as well.

    Hard choice really is, think it might be a case of you and Andy rolling 1 dice, who ever gets higher takes IG (or SW) and then settling it that way!

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  12. Venerable Brother25 February 2011 at 08:11

    @Killswitch - I kinda agree with BroLo on the Long Fangs issue..I'd rather see 3 units, but I do totally get the choice.

    @BroLo - Autocannons on Vets. Love it. More S7 = awesome. Don't have to bomb forward or alpha strike now. whilst it takes me 2 turns to truly commit the melta units, I can have an impact instantly this way, lends to the weight of fire.

    Next point. Explosions. Always happens...ride dies in a huge fireball...HWT can suck up a wound without removing a model.

    And then finally, the cheeky one. Alpha striking HWT means that the distance the boys have to go to get the meltabomb charge off is less cause the base is so much bigger from a HWT. The 2" disembark plus base...well, becomes quite a bit more now doesn't it with the HWt leading the charge!

    Anyway, that's why I take them... :)

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  13. Killswitch25 February 2011 at 09:18

    ^ +1

    Yes 3 units is nice but cnt find pts.

    As for not enough combat prowess, we are talking about guard here right? So are you suggesting i take fists and rough riders? Bit confused m8.

    13 av12 vehicles isnt alot for 1750pts? Also a bit stumped. There're not many choices to be made to increase vehicle cap unless i would want to increase my kps and decrease my damage output by buying platoons with chimeras o.O.

    There are 5 melta units. Thats pretty average tbh. Wolf msu tend to have around 7 to 8 melta units so Id say its pretty standard.

    Storm trooper unit is 160pts and are much more survivable in a chim than wolf scouts which you yourself suggested earlier, so I dont see how they are instant poof?

    Love suggestions but telling me a unit whos purpose is to either scout or outflank that work similar to wolfscouts and has more survivability and duality (ap3 guns) is crazy talk lol.

    How bout a platoon. Would it fit in the list? thinking ahlrahem but then that means i must outflank which can be iritaring. Btw if his platoon moves on, can a special wep team move on nand hop onto an empty chim which has moved on the same time. Im thinking no but thought id ask.

    Cheers

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  14. Atreides25 February 2011 at 09:45

    ^ precisely

    @ BroLo, stormtroopers provide a hell of a lot more than what you seem to be implying. firstly, they die far less easily than normal guardsmen, even to explosions, due to the 4+ save.

    secondly, and far more importantly, they give you options. the ability to scout forwards, deep strike, outflank, or infiltrate is fantastic for a unit with meltas and ap3 guns. they also synergise well with vets in vendettas if you do get first turn.

    finally, as a minor point, they dont suck too badly in combat against crappy stuff. with ap3 pistol shots and two CC weapons each, they can often polish off a combat squad if they need to.

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  15. Atreides25 February 2011 at 09:48

    damn ninja'd. i like taking a platoon simply for the bubblewrap/backfield objective holding and throwaway 4 flamer PCS.

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  16. Unknown25 February 2011 at 10:03

    I agree with Brad, I think for the times they are useful I'm just not that bothered with transports for longfangs.

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  17. Anonymous25 February 2011 at 15:42

    Venerable... so you change your playstyle because you have 3 backfield autocannons? Seems odd to me. If you don't advance into midfield with those meltavets, you lose it. If guard allow an aggressive army to advance they're in for a tough fight.

    Killswitch... of course I'm talking power fists and rough riders... wtf... do you think I'm dumb? I'm talking something that can actually hold up a unit that has a modicum of CC-ability. Most armies will start tearing your shit to pieces as soon as they hit your lines with nothing to hold them up. If you don't understand what I mean, please read Whiskey & 40k.

    I didn't say 13 wasn't a lot, I said it wasn't huge. Please read properly. It's more than most can field, but not the most IG can. My point being, you've not sacrificed a foot element for an ultra-mech'd-out build.

    5 melta units is not average... please see Kirby's (avg 3-4), Sandwyrm's (4). Stelek's (0-5) are very variable, but his lists that contain higher number of these squads are pure alpha-strike lists, something I wouldn't say yours is. MVB's also has 5, but is an entirely different animal - CC marbo list. All of the above lists tend to have something else (Max'd vendettas/manticores/autocannon heaven). You only have 2 Vendettas and 1 Manticore.

    Comparing wolves and IG is like apples and oranges, please don't. Wolf scouts are a very different animal. They're far more precise and unless you go crazy with the WG, they're cheaper.

    "Love suggestions but telling me a unit whos purpose is to either scout or outflank that work similar to wolfscouts and has more survivability and duality (ap3 guns) is crazy talk lol."

    This makes no sense... If you're comparing the two and say I'm dumb for poo-pooing them please read the 'behind enemy lines' rules. That's why people use them right? Defending your long table edge is more difficult than defending against some shitty attempt to outflank Storm troopers. That's the reason they rarely appear in any IG lists.

    And no... I'm not talking about Al'Raheim. I hope the players you're playing against will know how to defend against some half-arsed outflanking shenanigans.

    I may not be an IG or SW 'veteran', but i'm reasonably well read and certainly not dumb.

    Arteides - You misunderstand my point on some CC prowess. Maybe I should have said presence. I don't want them to really beat anybody, I just don't want them to fold immediately. Any of these squads are unlikey to survive a single assault. If you're assaulting with them you're likely going to be doing it after popping a transport so your AP3 guns will be of very little use (you've shot your melta/opponent will be in cover). If anybody lets you shoot AND assault you outside of this, please tell me who you're playing. Especially if it's a marine player. I need to get my win ratio up. Crappy stuff that gets into CC with tends to be high in number (orks) or reasonably survivable (gants with FnP).

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  18. Venerable Brother25 February 2011 at 21:27

    @BroLo - not a change in playstyle mate, just an option...for 30 points? why not? swiss army knife...not all tools used at once...some analogy like that... :)

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  19. Killswitch25 February 2011 at 22:28

    This comment has been removed by the author.

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