Bully’s Deathwing? 1750...thoughts

Bully emailed in asking for some thoughts on a 1750 Deathwing force.

I have my own Deathwing force from back in the day…well about 2 years ago, from when I just loved fielding an all terminator force…at the time, this was my only option… BUT, it will continue to gather dust on the shelves in the games room, I’m not jumping on the Deathwagon…

Bully is though… ;)

He emailed in with this:

“…Yo Ven, Bully here,
Really this is just thinking out loud, had a bit of feed back from a couple of people, but I have a fair thought of the way the list would play out. As I said I didn’t want to side track any posts, as a former gaming writer I know how sometimes it can get annoying even if it ups the comments (quality > quantity!).

Firstly I am making the 1750 list to potentially play Atreides thurs (if he doesn’t mind the redic amount of term w/out correct arms I have lol).
Basic thoughts are;
Belial - TH/SS
x5 Squads - all TH/SS w/ CML (and 1 Apoc for FNP)
x3 speeders w/ Typhoon / MM

This is just standard. Obviously there’s 26 immovable objects (near enough) that become unstoppable forces if they touch things.

Then x16 misile shots a turn at 8 targets potentially.
Though more than likely 3 squads will be reserved to allow for double deepstrike in T1. Then the final one will be the "flexible" squad, either backfield objective holder/rock or attempts to get into the fray/clean up/support/pen in "escaping" objects.

This all comes to roughly 1560 points.
There are multiple options I have here I feel:
1 - The first, which I quite like is the double dakka pred option - dead on 190. Obviously this can move forward and offer s7 6" etc.
2 - The second is a sort of "variation" of your dropcannon - which would be a dread w/ MM/Flamer - only problem is - no 1st turn drop, no guarantee of it getting in till T5  ..
3 - The third is a vet squad w/ x1 melta x3 combi melta in a drop - again same issue, but this requires more fire to get rid of (short of a template) than a "maybe a lucky potshot" on that dread.

I think if the drop pods were same as C:SM et al I'd rock those because you could use them to block fire lanes / pen people in to try and get that 2nd turn assault w/ the 2 rock units.

Alternatively, which requires a few more models (just bikes) bought, is to drop x1 speeder and rock a unit of bikes w/ MM attack bike - which is 190, then add in maybe a MM/HF speeder to a squadron. Scout --> teleport homer could be a nice trick.
@ 1500 I think I am looking @
Belial
x4 Squads - TH/SS/CML - FNP/Banner on 1
x3 Typhoon's/MM
Again this is 150 short, which "creates issues" - though I think I am happy enough to squadron up x2 of these typhoons w/ MM/HF speeders.

In either case, these lists make a break from my mech BA's which I still love to play anyway, but allows me to get in touch with my love of terminators (and a fall back if GK's absolute suck, which is my 2nd hobby love, I still have my original 20 year old GK's beside me here looking all eager to get on the battlefield lol).
Cheers,

Bully…”

I think I’d agree with you on the reserves stuff. With no reserves manipulation, no Drop Pod rules…I’d not bother with Podding anything in…

Lets keep it on the table.

For me, that also goes for your Troop squads too. I’d not DWA them, they can drop in and shoot, but shit…they don’t need the range…they may need the angle to take on heavy front armour vehicles, but generally they’ll be ok.

So I like the Dakka Pred option. Double dose.

Gets you two more targets to suppress with the 2 S7 shots and even better vs light vehicles (Raiders, Ravagers, Venoms, Speeders, Vypers and even useful vs Av11 APC’s)

Tough front armour means that they are on par with the general ‘tough’ feel to the rest of the army.

They have excellent range too, complimenting (or complimented) by the Deathwing CML range… fits very nicely. Good choice.

Other choices? Double dreads? Nope, forget the points juggling issue, they don’t offer the same dove-tailing with the rest of the force that the Preds do…unless we go Las/ML sniper Dread mode…which is really quite expensive. No Rifleman dread option as its only the Mortis dread for Dark Angels…in FWorld, not the codex…sucks ass.

Putting the Speeders into a squadron is not a great option, we know it decreases their survivability, we also know it would remove 2 targets per turn… this is not acceptable with our already limited threat vectors…I do like the Multimelta option on the speeders…it counters the very, very limited anti-heavy armour arsenal in this army.

You will struggle with high armour vehicles…even with AV12 spam…you have 66% chance to hit, 50% to glance or better… 2 shots…this is 66% chance of a glance vs AV12, or less than 50% to penetrate… No Logan Grimnar to make your missiles S9…

Clearly, math hammer is not to be relied on, or used solely as our guide, but it is relevant and it does give a good indicator of performance.

I say keep it with the Preds at 1750…knowing that you have some excellent firepower at range, and up close you have superb antitank… TH/SS…which we’ve not mentioned, but I think we are all cool with how it works!! Does give superb protection…. BUT…

And there is a but… I don’t care how mind-blowingly cool it is to have Deathwing back in the game properly …. They are still a very elite army, that can now compete with the current Mech/troop heavy (read: proper 5^th ed army) forces…

Oh yeah, the but….they still die to a good amount of firepower… dakka dakka will kill them just as easily…how many 1’s can you NOT roll??

I think 5^th ed codices do ‘elite’ better… the Sanguinary Guard army will shrug off all this firepower, then smash throw the armour and bonus FNP by swinging first…even against Belial…The Loganwing force will go toe to toe with the guys…after they have removed the support and Preds, then cut them down with powerweaponry and combi-melta fire…

On the other hand, all those anti tank shots will be largely wasted from the large number of Storm Shields….a Vendetta will only kill 0.6 of a terminator…2 Vendetta’s to kill ONE marine… no thanks… very survivable…

One last point? Where are the pissing LAND RAIDERS mother fucker!!! It’s Deathwing!!