Thursday, 26 February 2015

Demon Summoning - What's the deal now?

Yeah, yeah - I'm 6th month's late on this..
I didn't like the concept when it first hit.
Felt it was
a) too time consuming
b) not smashy enough (I like to smash - that's what she said! self-snowmobile whoot!)

However - I have a heavily comped tournament (only a 40+ player one day bad boy to be fair...) coming up and I am trying to create competitive lists within its constraints.
As explored the other day, this rules out new Necrons (which I love), new Harlies (love - too new) and several other highly competitive builds (Nids for example).

I tried a Demon Summoning list last night at Sons of War. Had a great game vs CentStar - wracked up 18-10 on Maelstrom (it uses Maelstrom Missions only)..

After a little tweaking after thoughts, the list is:

Lord of Change - Lvl 3, 2 Greater Rewards
2 Heralds of Tz, Disc, Lvl 3, 1 Exalted
3 x 10 Tz Horrors
2 x 3 Nurglings
2 Demon Prince of Tz, Lvl 3, Wings, Armour (one with 2 Greater, one with 1 Greater/1 Exalted
9 Screamers

The idea is to grab sacrifice on the Nurglings first turn and get another couple of Heralds for the Council.
Comp is max 2 of the same unit (outside troops/inc. however transports e.g. max 2 wave serpents) and max 15 power dice to be generated per turn... so no 4 heralds or 3 Tz Princes

In testing - I focus on Sacrifice to generate another pair of Heralds on Discs.
These can turbo boost the turn they come in which means I have a great shot at maximising Maelstrom points and of course can join them to the Screamer Council in subsequent turns.
it also gives me a shot at grabbing any of the powers I don't get during the pre-game roll off for Psychic powers.
For example, I did NOT get Cursed Earth at the start of the game, but I did when I got my 3rd summoned Herald in turn 2...
I didn't actually use it...
I used the Nurgling Swarms in the first turn to put a wound onto in order to generate a Herald.

I of course stacked a load of dice on 4++ Divination power and talked this up as the "BIG" power to be getting off each turn to protect the council.
Of course it is... BUT, with Cursed Earth and Grimoire it's quite nice anyway..

it should be noted that another element of the comp is the limit to 2++ rerollable saves. They become the 2++/4++ reroll that is used by several tournaments. So actually, 3++/3++ is not all that bad...if I fail to get the 4++ or it gets stopped.

I only used "Summoning" three times and was stopped on one occasion - GK Cent Star has plenty of power dice too...

I did however, find summoning Screamers to be useful for the objective claiming/denial I mentioned with the Heralds. Their turbo boost can be wonderful to get to objectives.
They did give up a point once when my opponent drew the "Blood and Guts" card, gaining a point from killing a unit in CC.

I was very impressed with the board control, speed, objective claiming/denial and survivability of the list.

I was not impressed with the killing power. I found Flickering Fire to be..frankly, wank. Granted, I had mainly Dreadknights and Invisible CentStar to deal with ...so I just felt like killing stuff was fruitless - just put my units at risk and what not. I did kill his Strike Squads for easy "kill a psyker"/"kill a unit" points ... And I thought I could tie up the CentStar with the Screamer star of just summoned crap for a turn and pump all my denial dice into Gate. That'd keep them locked down and inactive...

As it was - I liked the way the Summoning/Mobile Demons worked for this game... I do wonder if I needed the fliers, but they were useful for Vector Strikes on Dreadknights and for drawing fire from the CentStar - he took two turns (over the game) to kill a Demon Prince ...

So thoughts please on Summoning Mobile Demons for a Maelstrom only tournament?
Think it's probably a really good shout, but damn...it needs some painting!!

8 comments:

  1. I've only fooled around with Summoning lists a little, but my experience with them in Maelstrom has been very impressive. As you say, the ability to drop little Units all over the place gives amazing Board Control and Objective-grabbing ability. It particularly gives inflexible lists like Deathstars and Gunlines fits as you keep popping obnoxious little Units up all over the place.

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    1. Yeah the "MSU-screw you" to deathstars is nice and in effect, creates the objective grabbing, or at least strengthens it as the deathstars can't cover the whole board in the same way.
      Of course... this list can't kill for shit... well.. not deathstars anyway!

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  2. I have a tournament coming up late april here in sweden where i will be taking my summoning/beatstick demons. Lots of restrictions and cap on 20 warp charges. 5 missions all with maelstrom as primary. In playtesting the summoning/sacrifice/incursion has been a real pain for the opponent. Its a jack of al trades in my eyes. # need to grab an objective 24" away, summon screamers or a tzerald on disc. # need to screen unit holding objective, summon a unit of demonettes and spread them out using run or just summon units to push forward locking opponents in cc until they can be handled with.
    The randomness from warp storm table, rewards, psychic is what makes demons so fun to play, you never know what you will get, the game feels so alive.

    here is a rundown on my 2k list
    Keeper-ml3,2x greater
    khorne herald - jugg, lesser, greater, wrath
    tzerald - ml3, disc, conjuration
    tzerald - ml2, disc, exalted
    3x3 nurglings
    11 horrors - icon
    13 flesh hounds
    8 screamers
    slaanesh prince - ml 3, wings, armor, 2x greater (warlord)
    slaanesh prince - ml 3, wings, armor, 2x greater

    /stefan

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    1. The Slaaneshi Princes there for Iron Arm Lash for Knights etc?
      I'd defo thought about them - might get one in somehow if I can... Just don't like the Keeper all that much!

      Can you give me some anecdotes or views to change my mind on him? I like the Lord of Change due to the FMC benefits of snap fire and vector strike - just think it keeps him alive more..

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    2. The keeper is not great, and i use him for 2 reasons, 1: i have the new verminlord model as keeper, so awesome. 2: i wanted to go single cad to show that it can still kick some ass.
      I can take out the keeper since tournament allows self allies, i could still have both lash prince, and trow in a nurgle soulgrinder + 3 more nurglings or evven up the hounds and screamers. But whats the fun in that ;)
      /stefan

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    3. Always great to find a way of fitting in cool ass models :)

      Gives me an idea for cheap demonettes! Use Skaven! Lol

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  3. You're right about not getting anything out of FF, but Bolt of Change can do serious damage. I would stick a locus of change on one tzerald and roll on tzeentch if you're facing mehtal bawkses, infernal gateway can do some serious work as well. Also heavily recommend upping to squads of 11 pink horrors for an extra 3 WC to start the game for 27 points.
    Kairos has always been a superior HQ for me, you have a good amount of beat-stick with your daemon princes already, and having access to invis, psychic shriek, and guaranteed 3 tzeentch powers makes him an amazing gunboat and a harder HQ to slay- especially if you grimoire him!
    Here's the long form - http://thelostandthedamnit.blogspot.com/2015/01/tactica-running-daemon-summoning-list.html

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    1. Hey dude - not a lot of point for me to go to units of 11... I did have them there, but I literally CANNOT go over 15 power dice, even adding the roll in during psychic phase... so there is just no point.
      Yeah I always liked Fatey - I figured the LOC gives superior CC edge if I need it. Fatey simply cannot give that at all.
      But then he has superior shooting and gets that Grimoire reroll in case I fail it lol!

      Thanks for the link, I'll definitely be checking it out today so I can make a decision before Sunday!!!

      Last night I finished off my back up army - "Savage Scars" White Scars/Champions of Fenris ...so depends how my model building goes Saturday!

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