Monday, 14 February 2011

Thoughts: New Grey Knights?

All I can say is..awesome! I'm really thrilled by the new rules (which are of course just speculation until confirmed). Of course, when has rumours been wrong? Well we have had plenty to go by in the past, yet not everything came to be, so I would still consider what some of what has been said to be false.
One example is that every Paladin can take an option to gain a 2++ inv save. That’s a bit silly, perhaps 0-1 or just a sergeant upgrade. Then again, I have been shocked too many times (such as Mephiston’s supposed stats when they were first posted..and guess what..they were right!!)
I think it’s too early to go into too much detail, as I'd love to get my hands on the codex first, but I can certainly see one great codex hitting the shelves soon. What we have been presented with is a plethora of special characters, each to their own doing something..well..special! I like this, just like the Dark Eldar codex. Having the ability to pick and choose a very unique force is something we are starting to see a trend of from GW. They tried it with the Wolf codex and failed (only 2 or 3 of the characters are even worth taking), then they tried again with the Blood Angel codex and did the same again (2-3 characters worth taking). They did he opposite to Dark Eldar, and they did great. Plenty of unique characters, adding something special to the army (Vect bringing some meat & initiative stealing compared to the baron making hellions troops). I love this in a codex, and although I'm not 100% sold on some characters out there, I do like the option. This opens up many doors and I'm looking forward to skimming through the various rules, some of which are already posted online.

So let’s start with the characters. 

So far we have Lord Draigo, a Combat monster (think Sanguinor and Mephiston making a baby and sticking it in Terminator armour). He also allows paladins to be taken as troops (''l go into these lads later). That’s a nice addition but nothing major as we can take a Grand Master to do that for us. I can see a few people trying him out, but unlike Logan, he doesn't really bring much to the board apart from combat prowess. This in its own right is of course nice to have, but I don't see the need to spend 75pts more over a Grand master for a few more nifty bits and bobs. Grey Knights will be an expensive codex as is, so those points will be needed.

Next I think we will expect to see Grand Master Mordrak on the scene. With potential 32pt termies..with stealth, and by losing a wound he can generate more termies, well I'm sold. This time, not too many points. For 25pts more than a normal Grandmaster, his packing a few nifty tricks, and is an upgrade character to the Ghost Knights. This is fantastic, and just like Arjac, can't be targeted in close combat, love it. As for the others, rumours are too here nor there to speculate, but I do like the ideas presented and some will certainly bring a lot of character & FOC moving (such as Corteaz making warbands troops).
Now we move on to the normal HQ choices. Librarians basic with Termie armour and 1 power for 150pts, not bad. Can cast 2 powers a turn and can buy more powers for 5pts a pop? Sweet. All the powers posted on BOLS here are very nice. All are basically used to enhance your elite army. I like this type of finesse, with units requiring support from one another. This kind of approach is regularly seen in Warmachine with the use of points from their warcaster to buff units.

The Grand Master will see a lot of play. With the option of giving D3 units scout, make them scoring, give them Counter Attack or re roll 1's to wound, I think these will be the basic choice in investment. I know I'll be taking 1 libby & 1 master in most 1500+ armies.
Next are the Elites. 

Paladins!!! That’s all I have to say. I was completely Gob-smacked when I heard about these boys. 2 Wounds with the potential to get FNP, 2++ inv & plenty of ways to gear up for wound allocation shenanigans. Blasphemy! Luckily though, they will literraly cost you..a whole body. No, not an arm and a leg, your going to have to sell yourself on the street for a good few weeks to get these boys. At 55pts BASIC and a 75pt UPGRADE to make one an apoc for FNP, this is going to be one heck of a point sink. I have to say though, this has the potential (with the help of Librarians & Grand masters) to become perhaps one of the toughest Death stars on the block. 

Purifier squads are looking tasty, and will certainly be needed if your regular opponents tend to take some form of Horde'esque army. I really like the 4+ to wound every model in base contact, and for only 20pts more over a basic squad, they certainly arn't too bad for an investment. 

Assassins deserve a special mention. I have always loved the idea of Assassins assisting Marines in the shadows, popping out and smacking the enemies of the Imperium around, then slowly fadding back into the dark. Great new stat line & rules, more-so the Vindicare who has become insanely good. 4d6 to pen should be more than enough to pen anything bellow AV 14 (hell even AV 14 is possible with a decent roll). Then there is the lovely "Ha your Lysander doesn’t have a storm shield anymore" shot. Loving it. No more Inv save and you can pick them out...oh wait AND you don't need to wound, just hit? Sold! Hey farseer, now I’m going to charge you and pick you out in the midst of your council :D Then slap you silly like a fish.
Ok, so now the solid Troops. 

Do Grey Knights have Troop capable of scoring and still provide a stable investment to actually bring something useful to the table at a decent price cost? Yes! 5 Grey knights with power weapons, storm bolters which count as pistols in CC, can teleport without deviation once per game 30 inches, can make themselves str 5 or give the Justicar a force weapon on a psychic test, and can take transports (Rhinos & Razorbacks) which can repair stuned & shaken results on a psychic test? I think thats good enough for me...oh wait...100pts? Fuck yeah!!! I think a couple of these will be staple in most Hybrid lists, looking at 2-3 with Psycannons in Rhinos for solid support fire & CC potential, with the help of a Librarian to debuff the opponent (-1LD) and buffing your units (I10? Sweet).
Termies as troops? Ok cool, whatever, the grey knight squads have power weapons and can ride transports kthxbai. If I want them as troops Ill just take Paladins and make them scoring with the Grand Master. Nice addition none-the-less.
Fast Attack...bit boring. 

Supposedly a deep striking Grey knight unit, but nothing confirmed. Storm Raven which can repair like a rhino? Ok decent but nothing special. Im hoping to see some speeders and attack bikes for quick and aggressive melta & blocking support which the army so far is lacking. I like the fact that the raven is Fast Attack though. Means the juicy heavy support isnt contending...too much.
Finally, Heavy Support. 

Dreadknights :) They seem nice, effective on paper..but will they really bring much? Id say no.

If your going to start equipping these bad boys to be effective, they are going to be stacking up a lot of points. The one problem I find is the same with Wraithlords, more so in fact. they are big, and hard to hide. With the amount of medium-high str shots out there, its unlikely to last very long. LF Spam, Hydras, Las/plas, and worst of all DE posion weapons will all turn this lovely Autobot into scrap metal.

I’m more interested in the purgation squad. 

With a choice of up to 4 incinerators, and swapping them for psycannons, I know my choice. 2 Incinerators & 2 Psycannons in a Rhino transport gives you a very effective unit. The duality of them is very nice to have, and with the Grand master, you can make them scoring. I like this because a fire support unit which sits in the backfield and scores can sit on my base objectives, whilst my hard stuff can concentrate on pushing mid-field and my opponent’s lines. With 2 fire points, the Rhino gives your Purgation unit the chance to fire both psycannons whilst in the cosy comfort of a Rhino hull. The fact that the weapons are assault is also nice for the times when the rhino gets stunned (if you fail your anti-stun power that is), you can simply walk out and still pop off 2 shots per gun. Any unit that gets too close then gets some rending heavy flamers to the face, which also gives them the option of performing an attacking role which I love.
Overall, so far from what I have seen, the codex is filled with lots of potentially devastating combo's and lots of units which are..well..good! I am very excited to jump on the bandwagon myself (been a Grey knight fan boy for years) and will be looking forward to building up my own force. The potentially devastating combat potential mixed in with decent shooting and defensive capabilities (2++ inv & a plethora of storm bolters) means that this codex could indeed fulfil multiple roles, which is something lacking in some codex's.
Lets hear your thoughts on the matter guys, what are you looking forwards to and will you be collecting Grey Knights?
Killswitch out.

I think all rumours have come from BOLS here...Killswitch can edit if I'm wrong!


  1. Whats the source on these rumours bro?


    There ya go mate :)

  3. The Dread Knight will be at least twice as effective as a Wratihlord for durable fire support. He has an armor save vs missiles and an invuln save vs anything that gets through.

    They won't be combat beasts, but they will be great for supporting the rest of the army. I'd call his price good (130) if he had just the basic Psycannon, but it looks like he gets a better one.

  4. From what Ive seen the good psycannon will cost around 40pts, which brings his cost to around a Libby dread. yes, much better than a Wraithlord, but still suffers the same. Lascannons will hurt it as will plasma, meltaguns etc. I would like to try one or two out before dismissing them, but I think the purgation squads can really bring more saturation to the table.

    Bare in mind the price tag for just a fire support monster. 130pts is base, with just fists. Certainly much better than a dread though, lets wait and see how good those heavy psycannons really are!

  5. Nice write up Killswitch,

    I have to say I am excited, though I still have a fistful of salt tucked away at my side with it all. I think we'll see a fair whack of this stuff in but a lot seems to me to be "we are/were testing all of this, and will edit accordingly".

    I have quite a decent sized GK army (including the old old GK's (as in rogue trader) which I bought new (either a testament to my age or fanhood of GK's, cant decide which), so naturally I am looking forward to it all anyway.

    I am liking the troops - not OTT but also not over costed (by the looks of it).

  6. massive cop-out on the graviton pistol. seriously, that thing is one of the coolest weapons they ever came up with. it used to would on whatever your armour save was or somesuch, because it worked on how heavy you are. S10 AP1 is just boring.

    the transport abilities are a bit wrong.

    all GK's are psykers. Tyranids, therefore, are laughing. So is Lady Malys

  7. Jesus old actually are you! lol

    I like the new rumours, I want to see something different though than the typical marine army.. I don't like the idea of GK just firing out of the Rhino top hatch...they need something different... the 30" teleport is where my game would be... depending of course on whether its a DS or a Jump-esque move... can I assualt after it essentially!

  8. Judging by rumours, its a jump move, not deepstrike so no scatter. Can only shoot. I think that alone is epic. Turn 5 objective grab or a rear armour pot shot on a Leman russ or the like is always nice :)

  9. Psycannons or melta/high str weaponry after that is great...deployment options...slides, shifts, blindsides all sorts available with it..

  10. doesnt really seem to be much melta does there?

  11. Thats what I think, but with the Libby power to give squads str 6 (with hammerhand) and 2d6 armour pen, and vindicares 4d6 shot, theres still plenty of anti-tank. Not as reliable though. Perhaps we will see speeders & Attack bikes in fast attack?

  12. We haven't seen all the squad options yet have we? options for alternative to storm bolter weaponry? Such as angelus boltgun to inferno pistol?
    Or is that too BA...
    I'd like to see anti tank through things like Hammerhand or psychic powers.

  13. lol killswitch, I am a mere 27, but my brother "played" the hobby back then (latelate 80's early 90's) with my cousins when they were like 11 / 12 and I was 7 - I was allowed a few models - so I picked the prettiest - which were the GK's and the terminator librarians (and some other terms, still have my original inquistors, captains and odd terminator lol) - was about 7 or 8. Also inherited some squads and what not that I am sure I have knocking around.

    @andy - yeah the lack of melta is a bit of an issue - but there is rending galore by the sounds of it and plenty of CC punch. But its not turned me off it any way - I've put aside ~400 for it (also repainting/stop painting my BA's - going to make everything the same scheme as my GK/DA's - just for simplicity)

  14. I have been thinking about this codex. though I never liked grey knights (I never was one for individual heroes, I always liked playing as the common man, hence the guard) I really think this codex could be good for the game. The most reliable way to win, currently, is to take many small units each with a real and distinct threat vector. Herohammer and deathstars are largely less effective. If this codex can bring either of these things to fifth, I will be reasonably happy.

  15. Im actually inclined to say Paladins will bring something no one will expect, a death star which can be soo effective (and scoring) it would render msu armies obsolete. With libby's capable of draging them around and the possibility to scout them forward in a raven or crusader, gunline armies such ads wolves/BA & IG will certainly start to worry. Spamming them with lots of shots wont work (2 wounds each equiped for wound shenanigans & 2+/4+ fnp). Melta/plasma spam may not work due to poping them in cover with shrouding (stealth for 3+ cover) and 2++ inv from staves. very hard deathstar and something which, on vassal, kills entire armies xD!

  16. I'd love to see some of that Vassal action..bullshitting around with new codex rumours sounds fun!

  17. Yeh boi hahaha was funny. 18 Paladins, draigo & a libby deep strike infront of a gunline and ate face xD

    In terms of effective builds, I think with the lack of melta, msu might be a possiblility but not the only option for them. Theres me hoping the regular squads all come with power weapons, in which case there would be no other "obvious" troop choice.

  18. Shit...thats the whole army? What pts level you go for?
    If thats the case, with plastic termies they could be cheap as £100 per army!

  19. 1750 lool! equipped to the teeth for wound allocation so you gota cause 10 wounds to kill 1 paladin...well 11 if the libby or draigo is attached. Plasma/melta is ignored on a 2+ or 3+ if in cover with shrouding :D This is of course speculation but yeh, basically £100 for an army for shits n giggles xD