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| Atreides tried to quit 40k...but he just can't! |
So yeah, its been a while. You know how it is, life takes over, hobby seems like a chore, your opponents get boring, all the usual crap. I decided not to fight it, and just stopped being interested in 40k for a while.
Hopefully though, all that is in the past. I have booked my first game of 6th edition for tomorrow (Thursday) night and want to take my guard for an outing. Only issue is, I have no idea what to take. I don't want to go into my first game with a crap army and no chance of winning, so I am asking for the cumulative experience of you guys so far. What works for guard these days, and what doesn't?
Having read numerous blogs and articles since the start of 6th (I haven't been able to let go entirely it seems), it would appear that the days of Chimeltas and Hydras are over, Vendettas are awesome as ever, blob squads are having some kind of renaissance, and everyone is convinced that allies are the new black.
I have enough men and tanks to field virtually anything, so I am thinking of trying some sort of hybrid army with a large blob, and possibly some allied Marines or Blood Angels to help attack into midfield. Honestly though, I have minimal idea what truly works, or what is truly needed in this edition.
All help appreciated!
First - great to hear you are still alive.
ReplyDeleteSecond - great to see you post.
Third- your post.. image was broken :( I replaced.. but feel free to do it right brother and put your original pic up.. :)
Ok, so what works.. crap - the bell just rang.. I have to go teach! Selfish bastards ...
little fuckers, they dont even want to learn anyway.
ReplyDeleteyou know what, i love that pic, it can stay. will look forward to hearing your thoughts later!
Right..Anyway, so 6th. Spoke to Mummy Atreides and she thought you'd had some game time last week? How did that go?
ReplyDeleteAll IMHO of course.
- Troops - lot's and lot's of them, they need to be either plentiful or resilient (so plentiful in the case of IG).
Mobility is important still of course. Foot slogging is tough, but with so many people doing it themselves.. mobile armies though still have a huge advantage.
-Tanks. The awkward silence.. yeah, I am not sure about IG tbh re mech. Av12 en masse is potentially an even scarier sight in 6th due to an overall reduction in melta. Though this of course has to consider the overall pace of change and responsiveness of your local gaming group to 6th. If they are still packing melta in every unit then mech still dies and dies more reliably. If they are all switched to plasma to gun down troops and still glance-strip hull points...well, they will struggle across the board on Av12.
Certain units have died a death for IG, the Hydra being one for sure that will impact you.. on the other hand there is a plethora of flier options out there for the popular armies and indeed plenty of flying MCs in both Nid and Demon armies, both of which are popular now - I'm sure you cannot have missed the usefulness of the Necron fliers, cheap enough to see 4-6 on the table in one army, nor the appearance of fliers in other armies. There is an argument to be made to still include the hydra for dedicated anti air.
The Chimera.. not sure. Transport in general suffer from being, not easier, but more reliable .. well it's kinda the same, to kill.. but Av12 is still higher than most people build for. People will always build to kill the ubiquitous Rhino..and like I mentioned, plasma everywhere as AP2 helps now with vehicles. But 5's are still 5's and they are a rare thing. COver is easier to get, but worse statistically.
You can't assault out a vehicle, like you care. but stunned/shaken still effect troops inside even after they get out, which is an issue. SO I think mobility is important, but trial on Chimmie's is needed.
One vehicle that is just superb now, even more so than before is the Vendetta.
This also leads us into another necessity - Anti Flier.
The VEndetaa is the joint-hardest armoured flier normally available, arguably less than the Chaos Dragon due to its Demon rule, but hey ho..it's a damn sight cheaper!
The lascannon make it a perfect anti flier (if facing plenty of fliers, or even several.. you WANT to go second. Let their flier wave come on and nuke it. Even better if you also have Interceptor units) and with the cheap heavy b's you can put hurt on the troops too with a decent volume of shots.
Anit flier in general is required. This can be easy if you rock an Aegis with a Quad Gun, perhaps a Hydra and a couple of Vendetta's... With the Quad Gun able to shoot as the flier comes on, and hopefully your Vendettas being able to lascannon them to death.
Other options are FW stuff like Hydra DEfence PLatforms for IG which are pretty nice..with AA and INterceptor for 50 per unit (Av10, 2HP though) they can hang out well behind an ADL and provide all kinds of support fire.
continued....
DeleteAnti Infantry - the general feeling in both the US and in the UK is for more bodies to be on the ground.. which of course means an increased number of anti infantry weapons is needed.. but kinda by definition this comes with the infantry anyway.. and the changes to rapid fire and First Rank, Second Rank combined with Prescience from Allied Marine Psykers make for lethal 30" shooting when you have 50 man Blobs.. for example.
This push to infantry is what prompts my feelings towards the Chimera. you can still get a good number of shots from the top hatch, you can glance vehicles with the ML and the HHF is still decent.
Hellhounds may even be useful.. but the one vehicle that seems to have come out very well is the Manticore, 2 of which seem to be very popular with IG players I have seen.
SO.. you needz... bodies, guns and anti flier. Hmm..only one of them is new.
Genuinely, this is still just 40k - Assault can be very sucky if you want it to work, shooting still totally rules.
Allies for IG? Allies are great and tbh, most armies benefit more from having IG as allies rather than IG needing allies. I would suggest that Allies can make IG stronger, but I would also like to suggest that IG is one of the few forces that can be truly competitive without Allies. THis is not to say that allying in SPace Wolves for Rune Priest Prescience etc is not a bad thing for IG blobs.. a big Grey Hunter pack or Thunderwolves or Lonewolves etc.. these are nice to have.. but IG can work as it is..
Perhaps something like:
Lord Commissar
3 x Massive blobs full of dudes with Krak and Serges with hidden power weapons, couple of cheeky Commisars.
3 x Vets with Plasmaguns
Aegis with Quad Gun - Perhaps the platoon command from one of the platoons could grab this.
Vendetta - HBs
Vendetta - HBs
Hellhound - HMM
Manticore
Manticore
Hydra - HHB
Whatever points are left out of 1850 would go into just buying up Chimera's.
Now, this may be rubbish (I don't think it is), but it would be a damn decent place for you to start and BUILD FROM as you figure out what you like and what works for you..
Alternatively.. just how much of a Demon army do you still have? ;) lol
awesome reply, thanks hugely. dont have a defence line as yet, so sadly that's a no-go. annoying, as it is fairly fundimental i feel. oh well, maybe i'll just buy one before the game...
ReplyDeletehow about this, which adds up to 1750 exactly
Company Command Squad, 3 plasma 95
chimera 55
platoon command, autocannon 40
platoon command, autocannon 40
infantry blob, 4 squads, krak grenades, commissar, 3 Power weapon 305
infantry blob, 4 squads, krak grenades (except one squad), commissar, 3 Power weapon 295
vets, 3 plasma 115
chimera 55
vets, 3 plasma 115
chimera 55
vendetta, heavy bolters 130
vendetta, heavy bolters 130
Manticore 160
Manticore 160
My friend plays a similar list:
DeleteCCS w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 145
Veterans w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 170
Veterans w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 170
Veterans w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 170
Veterans w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 170
Veterans w/ 3x Plasma, Chimera 170
Platoon 145 (in vendettas)
PCS w/ 3xflamer 45
Squad 50
Squad 50
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130
Vendetta 130
Manticore 160
Manticore 160
1850, Oppan plasma style!
Though i whould drop one plasvet and get the third manticore and 2 flamers for the nude squads.
Deletehaha that is basically my 5th ed list with plasma instead of melta and manticores instead of hydras. good to see that sort of thing might still work.
DeleteYep, hydras got changed into an AA unit, and lost its multi purpose, and tempaltes got better. More footslugging melta got changed to plasma.
DeleteIm just excited as to when everbody has changed completely to plasma so the monolith can reagain some much needed toughness. One day Monolith...You will ba back!
Looks solid, target prioritise the opponents anti air, whether it be dedicated AA or just units with high strength, high volume fire..especially TL'd crap.. and kill it, then enjoy air superiority/domination.
ReplyDeleteShame about the Aegis, if you can grab one - do so. Add in with the Quad Gun, which is of course useful against ground units too, and you are golden for 1850. Plenty of plasma,plenty of high strength for tank and transport busting, air units, plenty of troops in body count and in different units.. and of course with the blobs they can always go smaller for more units.
Should be cool.. I genuinely like 6th and hope you enjoy your game tonight buddy.. want to hear your thoughts!
Interesting Andy, not going to go down the route of using allies. Thought your nicely converted GK's would have been primed for use in this new environment.
ReplyDeleteHave to say, the fact that if I played you I don't have to face off against 17 tanks is a bit more enticing lol
I think Allies can be very useful for Guard, but I don't think they are totally necessary.. IG can get through without them.. Although GK, soon as they are already build Atreides, could certainyl be useful! Perhaps Coteaz with some Strike Squad dudes just to get in the Seizing and Prescience rerolls to Psybolts and Psycannons to try and glance strip hull points as well as decimate lightly armoured infantry at range. Perhaps your Titan-Termies in there too soon as you have access to such cheap troops in the IG codex.
DeleteI thought you couldn't ally special chars?
DeleteNot true at all buddy.
DeleteSo... How did your game go dude?
ReplyDeleteP.S. Fancy a little project? Making me 2 Hellblades out of plasticard?
haha, i would certainly love to make a chaos flyer of some kind. cant promise it'd look like those crappy things though ;) what are they supposed to be armed with?
Deletegame was enormous fun. played one of the better players locally with his Eldrad + maxed Seer Council + war walker spam list in a KP pitched battle game. i lost 11-8 and all he had left was the council (which i ignored) and a squad of rangers (which i ignored). i even killed Eldrad and Jain Zar.
My commander, minus her squad, also saved 8 out of 9 refractor field saves, 3 of which came from a prism cannon, to survive the game and deny hi two additional KP's. if i am honest, it was this as much as anything that really re-ignited my love of this great game. epic moments like that cannot be beaten.
i played like a total tool, wasting my blob squads with stupid movement and because he sniped both my commissars in turn 1 they kept running and being pinned. good play by him (but lucky i guess). still, i already learned a lot. I still don't really like Manticores. they are so hit and miss and cost a lot of points for such unreliability. Vendettas are truly broken as fuck, but i sort of guessed that already. i am uncomfortable with the lack of long range mid strength shooting, but that may not be such a problem any more and is probably a hangup from 5th.
in my next list i will stick with the blobs but i will equip them differently, and i think i'll be putting plasma in the PCS squads and losing the vets and manticores in favour of something else. i really felt like i could have used a Russ or two last night oddly enough. oh and i really do need that defense line.
Game: So pleased to hear you enjoyed it bud. Where the hell did Jain Zar go in his list? lol..Maxed out Council with Fortune is not pretty.. tough to kill..I had one in Blog Wars Game 3 with the DE Baron at the front tanking 2++ with rerolls.. bastards..lol!
DeleteLove that your semi-naked Commander just ate Prism Cannon shots! Epic!
Sniping - I LOVE that it works properly now.. 6's for Precision Shots - joy. Of course, not so much if you really need that Commissar!
Manticores are always hit and miss, but against a lot of armies, you will invariably hit something, especially the more typical builds..with Eldar I guess there is not a great volume on the board, although hitting those War Walkers would have been great!
Vendettas are nasty pieces of work these days for sure! Good job you have 2! lol
Long range mid strength is actually very useful still, I work mainly on S5-7 with my Necrons and I wouldn't leave home without it, particularly the S7. I guess you miss the S6/7 Multilaser/Autocannon spam?
Russ - you know, I've thought about the bog standard one quite a bit as an allied element, really think it could be useful in the extreme..
Build project - if you are up for making something that looks closer to the Storm Talon/Raven and a hybrid with the Hellblade/talon... then I'd be very down for that.. alternatively, I'd love a 40k scale Bobba Fett Slave-1 & Slave-2!!!
If you are up for it..I'd love to have some Atreides scratchbuilding in my Dark Angels army!
Armed in Chaos with either a massive S8 Assault Cannon basically.. or a huge flamer.. if you modelled the huge Cannon I think that'd be best.. then I can run it as Chaos and DA.. possibly..
Cost, if you want to do it..great, just let me know if want material cost up front or whatever..