tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post1291677643230341817..comments2024-02-12T08:18:40.120+00:00Comments on Sons of Sanguinius: The Irrational fear of Screamers.Venerable Brotherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07216367267460059729noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-88944488174924448252014-01-12T09:33:13.754+00:002014-01-12T09:33:13.754+00:00Nice artical mark. I agree with your sentiment her...Nice artical mark. I agree with your sentiment here. Screemers are a very strong build that force an opponent to play differntly, I cant see the problem with this, adapting tactics to the situation is a key skill in 40k. They also bring some ballance to other top books (no one wants to see rooms of 75% tau gun lines). TomoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-21177549545130961892014-01-08T22:04:29.290+00:002014-01-08T22:04:29.290+00:00Ollie, changing the system which just change the m...Ollie, changing the system which just change the meta, i.e running a list to break that scoring system wouldnt be hard.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15644762208242801559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-84335363781674755782014-01-08T13:47:24.844+00:002014-01-08T13:47:24.844+00:00I think that your proposal for objectives scoring ...I think that your proposal for objectives scoring VP from turn 1 would be pretty sweet. Euanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12664773681095466696noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-17904123288940641032014-01-07T09:01:47.779+00:002014-01-07T09:01:47.779+00:00I think it's a matter of how you define you &q...I think it's a matter of how you define you "average player". I mean at tournaments its fine, but the majority of 40k players that play at a local club most likely will struggle against things like screamerstar, when playing say your flavour of the month Marine list. <br /><br />HOWEVER this is not only true for the screamerstar, but for SO many other lists out there, i.e. Taudar, FarBomb, BeastPack, SeerStar etcetc. Nerfing just the 2++ wont help that at all.<br /><br />I think that the fact that ppl are complaining so much about the Screamers is that the 2++ just sounds/feels OP - but in the end is just another way of having a large probability of success when rolling dice, just like e.g. TauDar have with their shooting.<br /><br />As both jy2 and you say Mark, for us competitive tournament gamers it's just about approaching the game in a different way (which is actually why I really enjoy playing against screamers/seers), but for the guy who's going to his first tourney with his Dark Angels/Orks/whatever it's not that funny - but that's just the nature of competitive 40k, isn't it...olliswehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10576161015441723704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-61884583823117505752014-01-05T18:23:03.899+00:002014-01-05T18:23:03.899+00:00As a competitive player, I'm not too concerned...As a competitive player, I'm not too concerned about the screamerstar. They are good, but they aren't great. The seer council, on the other hand, is a whole different beast. The seer council is a much more difficult army to play against. <br /><br />BTW, the screamerstar has won 1 GT here in the US - Duelcon, a smaller 2-day GT with 5-rounds.<br />jy2https://www.blogger.com/profile/00707283800659862260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-32648982664207718082014-01-04T13:16:28.313+00:002014-01-04T13:16:28.313+00:00Naf for example, in my first meeting with Ven Bro ...Naf for example, in my first meeting with Ven Bro was his Nids against a FMC list of mine, basically I had a unit of horrors, 3 princes and fateweaver. Ven had something like 90 gargoyles, 3 tervis more gaunts then I cared to look at on a open ish board with 4 objectives. I had two troops and he had about 9? at the end. I looked at the and knew I could not win so I had to play the mission, long story short I lost but only by 1 objective (Andy had 2, I had 1 and contest another). First blood to me and no other secondaries scored by either so 6-4 loss, losing that game by a short margin acutally won me the tourny so yes impossible to win games arent impossible to lose.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15644762208242801559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-12746876849118781012014-01-04T12:48:06.782+00:002014-01-04T12:48:06.782+00:00Ollie, I would disagree that the average player Ca...Ollie, I would disagree that the average player Cannot win against Screamercouncil. As said above after I played a relatively new comer to the tourny scene after our game he went on to beat a screamer council using the advice and tactics I gave him. <br /><br /><br /> NafNaf, to say it is unfun and therefore should be allowed is not right IMO, there is plently of things I find not very fun (taking a assault list against a shooty list, taking lots of str4 against a WK etc) but in a tourny scene I would never say ban them. <br /><br /> Also game mechanics, what like nothing can modify a snap shot, not being able to run and shoot. Then think about every army bar one having little to no access to interceptor, having longer range and rapid fire sniper weapons, being able to join IC's to MC's etc. <br /><br /> I also disagree that you cannot play the mission against any screamer star, you will not be able to play the way you probably wrote your list with gameplay in mind and that might not be fun for you, but wouldnt playing the mission and 'overcoming' a screamercouncil but enjoyable then say playing the same way 6 games out of 6?.<br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15644762208242801559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-1082217945578079632014-01-03T20:59:49.507+00:002014-01-03T20:59:49.507+00:00The only problem is that there are so many other t...The only problem is that there are so many other things out there other than the screamer council that the majority of the 40k community can't deal with. Tau missile spam would be back on the scene big-time if the save was changes to a 2+4+, and then ppl would be complaining about that... The ugly truth is that armies like Screamer Council and Seer Council are needed in today's meta to keep Tau/Eldar Gunlines in check. <br /><br />But you are totally right in saying that there is something a bit wrong when your average player has NO chance of winning a game without being 100% aware of the meta and how to build to it.<br /><br />It'll be interesting to see how mission design (something I know NOVA open are looking at) can change these death star armies. The common denominator is that they all leave their troops in reserve to come in late game and score. If you could design a mission where troops could score VPs from T1 onwards, you could nerf the death stars slightly...olliswehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10576161015441723704noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-79155612995411849272014-01-03T18:50:07.973+00:002014-01-03T18:50:07.973+00:00I also think it's wrong to nerf Screamer Counc...I also think it's wrong to nerf Screamer Council 2++ RR as it's possible to deal with it with some practice (another option from the above is to kill Fateweaver). Seer Council is worse as it's much harder to stop due to hit and run and no external force (Fateweaver) holding it up.Qarpnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1742113396089797587.post-76560837171912682292014-01-03T16:53:18.919+00:002014-01-03T16:53:18.919+00:00I think the reasons people (myself included) do no...I think the reasons people (myself included) do not like the screamer star is because it breaks the core mechanics of the game. There is no counter to it (especially if you are an average player like most of us are) apart from what you listed above (which is very difficult to achieve). I think it is fair to say that a general game against a screamer star list is pretty unfun (along with seer council) for the person at the receiving end of one. Against powerful codexes like tau and eldar there is still a chance to win through skill but that element is almost removed when coming against this kind of list. I understand that high class tourney players like yourself can counter the star effectively but the truth is that the majority of the 40k community cannot.NafNafhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14522517536480760579noreply@blogger.com